The State of America

[HolyOrangeGlory]

In the "Would you give your life?" thread, we came across some diffrences in opinion about how much America rocks/sucks. Just so we wouldn't get too off topic in that thread, I've created this thread. So, state your opinion about the US's condition.

[The muffin man]

Crap on a bun. The US is just not being wise in how we choose our leaders and what we decide to grobble about. I think this pretty much sums up how I feel. http://www.techniguy.com/Newsletters/archives/pics/01%20dUMB%20fuCKISTAN.jpg

[Sponge]

America as a country is fine. America as a political body is fuckin' up.

[pherra]

Yea, so America has some things wrong with it. Other people view us as selfish snobs, really. But still, we have a lot of freedom if you think about it. I know i woudln't want to live anywhere other then here. I mean really, we're pretty safe, besides from all the terrorist attacks from us. But then again, we ahve a lot of defense. But I mean, of course we have things wrong with our country. We're human, we're obviosly gonna complain about stuff, but nobody really thinks their country is perfect do they?

[Sponge]

I mean really, we're pretty safe, besides from all the terrorist attacks from us.
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding this sentence and you're saying something else, but all the terrorist attacks? Yeah, all one of them. In the last few years the government pushed terrorism and the "Fruit Loops of Terrorism" scale to keep people scared. Now they've stopped using it completely and you haven't heard a thing about terrorist attacks in the US either because nothing ever happened and they almost ran the risk of looking stupider than they already are.

If you did mean something different by that, I'm going to feel very stupid.

[HolyOrangeGlory]

Uh...he also said "all the terrorist attacks from us." ..Does that make us terrorists?

[HolyOrangeDoom]

America was founded on great ideals, but it is losing sight of them quickly. It's not a terrible place to live, for the most part - we are fairly safe, we're the richest country in the world, we're the last superpower left - but we're getting messed up by the current regime - er - administration. Oh, and most of the world hates us. That's always a little problem.

[Sponge]

Uh...he also said "all the terrorist attacks from us." ..Does that make us terrorists?
That's the question I had, but the sentence is confusing because it says "WE are safe".

[HolyOrangeDoom]

Here's a link to a speech by Al Gore about Bush's illegal seizure of power. I put it on another thread, but it fits perfectly here. It's long, but definitely worth reading.

Al Gore Speech (http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2006/01/17/20060117_001800_flash1g.htm)

[HolyOrangeGlory]

Hm... Strange, everytime I click on the link, it sends me to microsoft.com.

[Sponge]

That's because you wrote http:// twice.

[0tacon]

what is this america of which you speak?

[HolyOrangeDoom]

I fixed the link.

It's the giant pile of filth and "family values" - yeah, I know that was redundant - on the west side of the Atlantic.

[pherra]

hahahaha..oh my word okay i def. messed up there

so yea, well for one i know like NOTHING about politics...so do'nt hold a grudge haha. and yea, i ment "from all the terrorist attacks ON us" not "from us" haha..cuz that would mean we were attacking ourselves? haha...and yea, so there was the 9/11 one, but there was like threats with anthrax and suicide bombing and all that stuff. Basically though, I ment our country was safe..so forget all that i said haha

[HolyOrangeDoom]

Do you mean bombings in the 51st state - er, Iraq? There have been plenty of them, and it's almost part of the US.

[Whower]

United States of America.

Look at the name.

What has the government done? They're trying to change it from USA to GOA = Government of America.

Our rights should be left to the states, not the government. If one state wants abortion, fine. If one state wants gay rights, fine. But leave it in your own effin' state, not everybody elses.

[pherra]

If one state wants gay rights, fine. But leave it in your own effin' state, not everybody elses.

well, yea, the government has a lot of control over us, but the states have say as well. There's only two states that made it legal to get married, not all of the states are allowing that. Although, all of the other states are being pushed to allow gays to get married, but it's the state's choice, really. Um, I think at least. Again, I don't knw anything about politics, I don't even know why I'm imputing because really, half of this stuff I don't really know what I'm talking about. anyyyyyyways...i like the US, I'm happy with it for the most part

[HolyOrangeGlory]

United States of America.

Look at the name.

What has the government done? They're trying to change it from USA to GOA = Government of America.

Our rights should be left to the states, not the government. If one state wants abortion, fine. If one state wants gay rights, fine. But leave it in your own effin' state, not everybody elses.

Now hang on there, all that would make us is an alliance, and alliances tend to run thin if we don't have something actually holding us together. We have seperate governments for state and country. You already know about the folks governing state-specific laws, and then we have the Feddies governing laws that affect everyone in America.

And you're wrong about our "Rights." One of the reasons our 'Rights' belongs to the federal government is so that one guy won't be getting more than the other guy, it's ll about being fair and just. The system is relatively efficient, it's just the people running it that are screwing up the process.

[Sponge]

United States of America.

Look at the name.

What has the government done? They're trying to change it from USA to GOA = Government of America.

Our rights should be left to the states, not the government. If one state wants abortion, fine. If one state wants gay rights, fine. But leave it in your own effin' state, not everybody elses.
You're forgetting the whole United part.

On a side note, they're called rights because you're entitled to them as a human being. No one should have to pass legislation to be allowed to live happily.

[The muffin man]

This argument goes back to the days of Hamiltonianism and Jeffersonianism. On the debate of whether the federal government or the state governments should have the power to make laws and such. Eventually they came to compromise on the equilibrium we have established here today. And sponge, unfortunately, in today's world, you do have to pass legaslation before one can be permitted to enjoy their basic human rights. The states have power, for sure, they control half of our government (the house and the senate), but only the combined power of all three branches of our government have the right to define what we are entitled to. If it is left to just the states, we will not have a republic, but a divided federation that will not last long in the changing and turbulent times of today.

[HolyOrangeDoom]

Under the Articles of Confederation, we were a loose union of states. The reason that the Articles have been gone for over 200 years is because it didn't work.

[Raiden513]

Yea, so America has some things wrong with it. Other people view us as selfish snobs, really. But still, we have a lot of freedom if you think about it. I know i woudln't want to live anywhere other then here. I mean really, we're pretty safe, besides from all the terrorist attacks from us. But then again, we ahve a lot of defense. But I mean, of course we have things wrong with our country. We're human, we're obviosly gonna complain about stuff, but nobody really thinks their country is perfect do they?

It is true that we have a lot more freedom than most of the world but if you look at the freedom we had 200 years ago compared to today, we went downhill real fast. For exapmle, the goverment says that cell phones are not phone lines but a transmission therefore, they can pick up our calls and listen and considering so many people use cell phones as opposed to land lines, the goverment can listen to conversations about family, relationships, jobs, anythign that is sayed on a cell phone. I only have my cellphone and it is very discomfortating to know that someone could be listening to even the most personal things I talk to about. I personally believe that if we had all democratic presidents over the past years, we would have more freedoms than we do now. Perple like bush and republications in general are more like communists than leaders. We cant fully blame our goverment for our issues but the people who are fucking stupid enough to vote for people like Bush.

[1nf3n0]

^ the cell phone thing is it true?? dude!!
but you speak of freedom but yet a couple of years ago you band electric 6 gay bar because it had lincoln as a gay!!

why do you contradict yourself!!

you vote for bush because hes better than the other guy!

[SkyFlyer]

The states we're supposed to be independant... Kind of like countries in the EU. Yet, during military or famine etc, they were supposed to be United.

The federal government was supposed to be small.

This country started heading down hill in the 1870s, but really started going down hill in the 1960s.

And I find it funny that liberals complain about Bush "taking away your rights."

YOU FUCKERS HAVE BEEN TAKING AWAY OUR RIGHTS FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS!

[EmeraldFalcon89]

It is true that we have a lot more freedom than most of the world but if you look at the freedom we had 200 years ago compared to today, we went downhill real fast. For exapmle, the goverment says that cell phones are not phone lines but a transmission therefore, they can pick up our calls and listen and considering so many people use cell phones as opposed to land lines, the goverment can listen to conversations about family, relationships, jobs, anythign that is sayed on a cell phone. I only have my cellphone and it is very discomfortating to know that someone could be listening to even the most personal things I talk to about. I personally believe that if we had all democratic presidents over the past years, we would have more freedoms than we do now. Perple like bush and republications in general are more like communists than leaders. We cant fully blame our goverment for our issues but the people who are fucking stupid enough to vote for people like Bush.
You are a certifiable moron. Your cell phones are a high frequency transmission, my brother works in the Air Force with equipment that is finely tuned and powerful, the equipment in question is a radio, a simple, mil-spec radio. However, since cell phones are nothing but high-spec radios that transmit in microwaves, the radios can pick them up easily. You think that they're going to subpeona and sue for every person that listens to a conversation for a few seconds thinking it's a transmission? Even so, there are mil-spec radios that CAN be acquired for public use, it's common knowledge that cells are nothing but good radios.

[The muffin man]

To touch on the cell phone thing: The program in called Echelon. Echelon tracks and monitors phone called autonomously, searching for key words or phrases like bomb, assassinate, attack. Once one keyword is said, an alert level for that call will go up by one, and your phone number will be stored. If another keyword is mentioned (there is a precise algorithm for determining whether a call is to be placed under stage 2), the call may be monitorred by an operator. Usually the audit lasts only for a few seconds, but there have been cases where grave misunderstandings have taken place.

[SkyFlyer]

I personally believe that if we had all democratic presidents over the past years, we would have more freedoms than we do now.

Good one!


If democrats had the power for the last 60 years, conservatives would be arrested for hate speech.


Oh wait.

It is happening... my bad.

[Hacky]

Yeah, extreme on the left is just as bad as extreme on the right. The system works best when we have even amounts of democrats and republicans throughout the years.

But what the fuck are you talking about Sky? I'll admit there are some over zealous anti-hate speech morons, but I don't believe that honestly there are too too many arrests that happen unfairly.

[SkyFlyer]

But what the fuck are you talking about Sky? I'll admit there are some over zealous anti-hate speech morons, but I don't believe that honestly there are too too many arrests that happen unfairly.

ask around. Quite a few know the story about when I was arrested at starbucks and released in the wee morning hours about 6 hours before I had to go to school

[Sponge]

YOU FUCKERS HAVE BEEN TAKING AWAY OUR RIGHTS FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS!
Yes, because clearly Republicans have been working for positive change. Remember segregation? Minimum wage raises? Workers unions and benefits? Not them. The entire political body is overly corrupt because of coporate lobbying, but at least some politicians have been able to make life better for people. Capitalism has made necessary items for continued survival unobtainable for most who need them, such as medicine becoming it's own industry.

I myself am not a liberal because I do not believe that more laws and a larger government will make life better. I believe that after some amount of time people may be able to go beyond the need for government and take care of themselves.

The position of the Republican party changes with the alignment of every president. Republican president: Federal control! The government controls everything!
Democrat President: STATES RIGHTS! FUCK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

[DonKing]

I myself am not a liberal because I do not believe that more laws and a larger government will make life better. I believe that after some amount of time people may be able to go beyond the need for government and take care of themselves.


Impossible. You cannot possibly expect Humans to get along and not have conflict with each other.

[Sponge]

Impossible. You cannot possibly expect Humans to get along and not have conflict with each other.
It doesn't have to be on a global scale. I'm not asking all of humanity to have a giant political and ideological orgy. Large countries are a bad idea to begin with, people with similar beliefs should live in localized communes/states. You can draw from history that some war tribe would conquer all the other ones and fuck the world up again, but with all our modern convienences people are so lazy they'll just sit on their asses and be content instead of killing eachother for fun.

[DonKing]

Yes, but you must remember, we have not completely gotten to the point where the machines can do everything for us, some work must still be done by human hands. When you shorten the population pull, people would have to do more work to support the group, and thus become less lazy, and probably starting the whole cycle again.

Plus, if we did have the machines to do everything for us, then it would just come down to whoever had the best technology for kicking the other's asses.

[baklava]

You can draw from history that some war tribe would conquer all the other ones and fuck the world up again, but with all our modern convienences people are so lazy they'll just sit on their asses and be content instead of killing eachother for fun.


Modern conveniences might turn people lazy enough to sit around and live in peace, or give them just the reasons and resources not to.

[The muffin man]

Let's hope so, baklava. That would be very cool. And fattening, now that I think about it.

[HolyOrangeGlory]

Hamiltonianism and Jeffersonianism

Dude, I didn't even know those were words... Are they words?:confused:

Anyway... any one willing to guess who's going to run for the next presidential ellection?

[EmeraldFalcon89]

Honestly, in response the general attitude of this thread and young people today, I see the future of America going downwards quickly. People that think they're well-informed, people that think they have an understanding to deliberate. It takes a 5 year old to form an opinion about politics, it takes a lifetime to understand politics. Yet whenever anything goes wrong, or anything can be construed as wrong, which it will. The blame will ALWAYS be shifted onto a few high-key stress points within the government. The American people are largely uneducated, unmotivated, gullible people that will follow snazzy taglines and political parties that sign punk bands. Notice how in the first election, everyone was like "How can the American people be so dumb as to vote Bush into office?" and then in the second election, when he lost, everyone was INSTANTLY up in arms about terrible it was that the people didn't get their way.

[SkyFlyer]

Yes, because clearly Republicans have been working for positive change. Remember segregation? Minimum wage raises? Workers unions and benefits? Not them. The entire political body is overly corrupt because of coporate lobbying, but at least some politicians have been able to make life better for people. Capitalism has made necessary items for continued survival unobtainable for most who need them, such as medicine becoming it's own industry.

I myself am not a liberal because I do not believe that more laws and a larger government will make life better. I believe that after some amount of time people may be able to go beyond the need for government and take care of themselves.

The position of the Republican party changes with the alignment of every president. Republican president: Federal control! The government controls everything!
Democrat President: STATES RIGHTS! FUCK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.



Conservative President: States Rights

Liberal President: Lets have the biggest government possible, and hand out free checks to minorities so we can keep relying on their votes.


And you know who was the biggest proponent of segregationism? Democrats in the South.

[The muffin man]

Dude, I didn't even know those were words... Are they words?:confused:

Anyway... any one willing to guess who's going to run for the next presidential ellection?

Hamiltonianism is based of the views of Alexander Hamilton and Jeffersonianism is based on the views of Thomas Jefferson. They come from the famous debate between the two on how much power the federal government should have.