The Simulation Argument

[Ram!rez]

Is it possible for us to be living in a fake computer generated world?

I think we can. Theres no proving or disproving it. Perhaps someday we will get put into one without knowing it or we will find out if we are in one.

[dEUS]

It probably will.

[Casanova]

It is completely possible, it would however have to be far enough advanced that it would allow us to feel things like love, pain, etc. Of course, that is also entirely possible.

[one]

this topic reminds me of matrix

[semiavrage]

How would you make babies?

[runestone]

How would you make babies?

A mommy polygon would meet a daddy polygon and together would perform a Fast Fourier transformation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/math/5/e/3/5e37c3d2a5e3d5a433f3eba4e4abed34.png

Any further questions?

[Mastaninjapirate]

Haha at Rune.

Anyway, it's possible. However, it'd have to be either very flawed or absolutely ingenious. To allow people to even be asking these questions could be a flaw. Who knows which of these bajillions of questions even scratch at the truth.

I was watching The Island today, which is about in the future where plastic surgery and transplants and "artificial" wombs are possible through clones. These clones are bred as exact copies of their "owners" and they're led to believe they're actually humans.

But, of course, the inevitable nature of mankind to question everything leads one of the clones to figure it all out and save the whole cloney world thingy.

[Rab]

Anyway, it's possible. However, it'd have to be either very flawed or absolutely ingenious. To allow people to even be asking these questions could be a flaw. Who knows which of these bajillions of questions even scratch at the truth.

I was watching The Island today, which is about in the future where plastic surgery and transplants and "artificial" wombs are possible through clones. These clones are bred as exact copies of their "owners" and they're led to believe they're actually humans.

But, of course, the inevitable nature of mankind to question everything leads one of the clones to figure it all out and save the whole cloney world thingy.
I was looking forward to seeing that film :(

[Mastaninjapirate]

Trust me, I didn't give away much. All that was already in the summary.

[High Society]

It could be very possible.
Infact maybe our dreams are what we are really doing in the "real" world.
And everything has it's glitches. Eventually somone will find out how to hack the world and let us run free upon the grassy land of the "real" world. Then again, What if grass was simulated and the "real" world is just a desolate white space.

Creppy.

Cheers. High Society :bad:

[Hellion]

It could be very possible.
Infact maybe our dreams are what we are really doing in the "real" world.

AHAH! anyone here read everworld? the books are about these people who get sucked into a alternate universe where all our mithical gods and such exist but when the people who got sucked in go to sleep they live there lives in the "normal" world. so if anything, High Society, you could be right in a way

[EmeraldFalcon89]

This is one of those ridiculous arguments. It has no founding in anything except a movie and off-beat existentalism, yet you can't disprove it. Whatever though...

[KrazyKain]

ok this argument screams matrix!

but either way its very possible, in fact with mmorpg's it is partly a reality.

[Hdarim]

There is no way that any of us could tell if it is or isn't , for even if some thought that way 100% and tried to find away to reveal the source, the computer or machine could make it look like an illusion or disguise itself as a god or some higher lifeform confusing the person trying to find the truth like it could be doing now at the same moment.

[KrazyKain]

lol sounds like a book i'm writing Hdarim

[Ram!rez]

How would you make babies?

We can maybe be grown like in the Matrix or we can be cloned. Whatever would put us in the fake world would most likely have to know a solution to that before trying to put us into a fake world. But why would it need us?

[semiavrage]

Well if it doesn't need us, why put us in a vertual world anyway? Why not just kill everyone.

[the.doctor]

if any creature (or machine) was smart enough to create this world in our minds and have us all become none the wiser, there is absolutely no chance they would slip up so badly as to let ramirez or any other kid spread the word... it would only be too simple for them to change the world and make this thread - or ramirez -never exist

[Hdarim]

Maybe it is just so simple and we as the lowest possible level of intelligence in a possible created game we call life or existance whatever floats your boat, we don't even realize what is more then likely true. Something either so simple we over look and its always been there infront of us.

If not well its the oppsite something so complex are minds would literially recive a migraine for trying to think up ways to see how possible or impossible for this to be ture or false.

[Mastaninjapirate]

And if it wasn't too complex, it'd be too scary and people would run around killing themselves like on the War of the Worlds broadcast or what's likely to happen come 06/06/06

[Inactive Cargo]

The Thirteenth Floor (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0139809/) deals with this issue.


A small simulation set in 1937 has been created. Our main character discovers that his recently murdered partner (the simulators creator) has been using the simulation before its release for human trial. He also discovers that a message has been left in the system for him to find. A message that promises to ultimately change everything.

I recommend this film to all those who enjoyed eXistenZ etc. Fans of David Lynch will not be disappointed either. If you are a great fan of Lynch, then you will see this as an easy to follow film that has some nice turns and twists without forcing you to pause and rewind or watch again.

The film manages to persuade you of the complex simulated world without spending too much of its budget on special effects, unlike the matrix, which ultimately destroyed itself by its overdone sequels. Great set of actors here too. Ones that deserve the job title "actor" and have many creditations to their name.

I am surprised that this little effort hasn't been more popular since it manages to get a complex story line and make it very easy to follow without becoming bogged down with the characters explaining each scene (ergo the matrix).

Overall, definitely one to watch and one to own.

[Typo_the_Lover]

No, everything we feel is just too real. Emotion, pain, all of it. From the smallest paper cut on your index finger, to the death of the one you love, everything is just to real.

[Hdarim]

I could easily same the oppsite.Maybe everything isn't real enough maybe we can't really feel the full force of someone leaving us forever, we could simply not be ready to comprehend such feelings.

[Phlintlock]

Maybe we are all units in some incredibly indepth RTS game being played by higher beings, although there is seemingly no way to prove or disprove this, it's something I've always wondered about, but even if we are just simulated programs or data or something not real, might as well live life anyway.

[ohiojoe]

I think Phlintlock may be the closest to my own opinion...

In my opinion, (please no flaming!), we were created by a Supreme Being. Our lives, our universe, is jsut his own gigantic game. Our every action or thought is jsut a roll of his dice; however, our wills are his dice. We are under his control, but at the same time, we exercise control over our fates.

[buttofthejoke]

I think Phlintlock may be the closest to my own opinion...

In my opinion, (please no flaming!), we were created by a Supreme Being. Our lives, our universe, is jsut his own gigantic game. Our every action or thought is jsut a roll of his dice; however, our wills are his dice. We are under his control, but at the same time, we exercise control over our fates.

So our life is just one big (though vastly more complicated) game of The Sims?

[Tegro]

lets hope the computer running us doesnt use windows :P

but seriously, i have often thought about this idea. its completly possible, but we have no way to prove / disprove it. if it was true, then i wonder what its like outside our little box. or maybe we are a massive experiment. there could be a massive bank of computers all running this little simulation. wow. that would be really rather cool. :D