Gay Rights

[NeverSoft]

How do you feel about Gay Rights?

[Inactive Cargo]

No problem at all seeing as God isn't real and that more or less invalidates anybody who says it's a sin.

There's a thing about Christians being pissed off here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=aibKW_1HV-c), and it touches slightly on Gay Marriage.

[Zandrel]

This topic has been done and destroyed by the conflicting opinions of various members before.

It is because of this that i will opt for the extremely ignorant route when posting here.

I HATE GAYS THEY DONT DESERVE RIGHTS AHH!!!

[Evonus]

I have no problem with it. I don't want them to be able to adopt, but I think they should be able to marry and all that, and be treated like everyone else.

[Confero]

I'm too involved in my own sex and love life to fight for legislation that would penalize others for theirs.

[NeverSoft]

Well you see I am a Christian, yet I feel that although it is clearly stated in the Bible, the Bible has been revised so many times it is bordering on ridiculous and many times changed for the sake of current church politics. Also I live my life they live theirs.

I mean really OH NO THEY MIGHT ADOPT A CHILD! C'mon now the kid won't turn out fucked up because their parents are of the same sex. They actually turn out straight almost always....

I live in Mass so maybe I am way more liberal but really I am in my local Gay Straight Alliance and we do marches and things and I have gotten so many comments about shit like that and it is kind of lame. I mean how is this any different than racism people at one time TRUELY thought that blacks were inferior people and that they are not equal.

Fag is a pile of sticks commonly used for burning. Now how would that become a term to descripe gay people...It is because back in darker years gay people would be burnt at the stake like witches. That is just wrong that that term still describes them and is thrown around so lightly.

[TDD]

Kill all the fags.
Nah, I'm just kidding. I'm cool with gay people. I think that they should be treated equal to everyone else.

[Kinetix]

Honestly Christians are like black people. When they walk into a room and enter a discussion they always have to announce they are black, or in Christian's case, Christian.

Honestly NO1GAF about your religion. If you have to have some book tell you exactly what to say it only makes you look worse. Attention Christians: Go learn to form your own opinions, or go frollock with Mothers Against Gaming. They don't have a opinion either.

Fag is also probably one of the greatest insults ever. Next to twat.

Me personally? I don't care. Don't protest, force your ideas, or make out with another dude in front of me I am perfectly fine with your life choice. Do any of the above, we have a problem.


PS: Thought i'd mention one more time that christianity is lol.

[Evonus]

I mean really OH NO THEY MIGHT ADOPT A CHILD! C'mon now the kid won't turn out fucked up because their parents are of the same sex. They actually turn out straight almost always....

Turn out straight, but I still think it must be stressful for the child to get harassed by their peers everyday for having two same sex parents. I'm sorry if you don't agree, I have no problem with gay people being together, I think it's their choice, but since they can't naturally produce children I don't believe they should have any.


I live in Mass

You lost all credibility after this line.

[Confero]

PS: Thought i'd mention one more time that christianity is lol.


I'm lulin

[NeverSoft]

Turn out straight, but I still think it must be stressful for the child to get harassed by their peers everyday for having two same sex parents. I'm sorry if you don't agree, I have no problem with gay people being together, I think it's their choice, but since they can't naturally produce children I don't believe they should have any.

That is the thing if there was equality then there would be no harassing and no insults.

And yea I was saying that I was christian because it was brought up in a post before me. Also note the fact that I said that I don't listen directly to what I am told I am doing the opposite as to what you would expect out of a Christian. I believe in the ideals more than anything, I don't really attend church but I have read the Bible through and that what makes me say that Yes alot of it is a work of fiction.

But that is religion.

Rights for gays, yes. (back on topic)

[Hacky]

Turn out straight, but I still think it must be stressful for the child to get harassed by their peers everyday for having two same sex parents. I'm sorry if you don't agree, I have no problem with gay people being together, I think it's their choice, but since they can't naturally produce children I don't believe they should have any.

Children will be harassed for anything and everything in their lifetime. There is no way to avoid it. "Oh noes! They'll be made fun of MORE!" Get over it. I did. You clearly have. Children get over things. Unless we see suicide rates climb drastically for harrassment of students with same sex parents, then it's a bullshit arguement.

[Evonus]

That is the thing if there was equality then there would be no harassing and no insults.

Yes, and in a perfect world we wouldn't need to pay out tax dollars to a police force and an army, but you don't see me voting to take either of those institutions down. Point being, you have to take into the situation at hand, not just flock after idealism. If it was a more accepted thing I wouldn't have a problem with them adopting, but right now it isn't, so I don't agree with it. I'm for slowly changing things, not just rushing in headfirst.

[Spanky Ham]

*inhales deep breath* Ok my view of gays is.... They are wrong..not natural and should die. Marriage is a thing for straight people stop trying to get in the door you already came outta the closet. I'm not totally against them though I would be normal to them and treat the same as anyone else unless they did something gay.

Gays are wrong and are growing in numbers, so if i supported it I would be supporting the extiction of the human race, no babes = no humans.
As long as they the the f*uck away from me I don't care but theres no way in hell I would still be friends with one of my friends if they turn gay.
I personally prefer lesbains then gays because they acually can have children, by going to a sperm bank. Two babies is better then one so im all for that...then again if i was rasied against two lesbians I think I would be pretty twisted...kids that get raised without a father figure in their life tun out wierd. But meh nothing I say will matter unless I do something about it, which I won't so I say this thread smell like fail to me.

[Hacky]

Oh yeah, the human race is at such risk of extenction! I mean, just look around you! China is so underpopulated, we clearly need to stop homosexuality because of what it's doing to us!

Not natural? Homosexual monkeys, horses, and wolves anybody? We see it in nature. It comes out in points of time which overpopulation is prevelant, and it helps stop it. Guess what? The Human population has never been more overpopulated than it is right now.

Btw, your comment about no longer being friends with somebody, sickening. Sorry, just because they're gay doesn't mean they're suddenly different people.

[Darkraptor]

Evonus is right, equality has nothing to do with it. You can't force people to think a certian way. If you do, what rights do they have. If there were no racists then people would find something else to make fun of. People need to feel dominate to something, and usually that something is a thing they don't understand. So realisically their can't be any perfection in this world. But otherwise I do believe that gays should have marrige rights, and for adopting rights, I'm not so sure.

[Shins]

Honestly Christians are like black people. When they walk into a room and enter a discussion they always have to announce they are black, or in Christian's case, Christian.

Honestly NO1GAF about your religion.

Atheists do the same thing; they just tend to scoff more than preach. I find the whole business pretty fucking annoying.


Turn out straight, but I still think it must be stressful for the child to get harassed by their peers everyday for having two same sex parents. I'm sorry if you don't agree, I have no problem with gay people being together, I think it's their choice, but since they can't naturally produce children I don't believe they should have any.

Would you hold infertile straight couples to the same rule though? They can't naturally have children either. So far as the teasing is concerned, I concur with what Hacky said: kids are going to get picked. It's part of growing up. You could say that being gay was a choice, and the kid didn't get to decide his parents, but then, being poor is a choice, if you want to take this to an extreme, so then, should we not let poor people have children.

And once we've done that, what's to stop us from not allowing anyone but the most ideal of potential parents reproduce? That kind of selectivity is certainly working wonders for the adoption agencies of the world.


*inhales deep breath* Ok my view of gays is.... They are wrong..not natural and should die. Marriage is a thing for straight people stop trying to get in the door you already came outta the closet. I'm not totally against them though I would be normal to them and treat the same as anyone else unless they did something gay.

Gays are wrong and are growing in numbers, so if i supported it I would be supporting the extiction of the human race, no babes = no humans.
As long as they the the f*uck away from me I don't care but theres no way in hell I would still be friends with one of my friends if they turn gay.
I personally prefer lesbains then gays because they acually can have children, by going to a sperm bank. Two babies is better then one so im all for that...then again if i was rasied against two lesbians I think I would be pretty twisted...kids that get raised without a father figure in their life tun out wierd. But meh nothing I say will matter unless I do something about it, which I won't so I say this thread smell like fail to me.

I'd almost have thought this post had taken every stereotypical narrow minded view of homosexuality and thrown them together into some grand blender of parody set to puree... then I saw the username.

My own view is pretty straightforward: gays have a right to be gay, and that's it. They accept any hardships that stem from that, and have as much right as anyone else to try and change their positions in life or society for the better. And I say good luck.

[Confero]

*inhales deep breath* Ok my view of gays is.... They are wrong..not natural and should die. Marriage is a thing for straight people stop trying to get in the door you already came outta the closet. I'm not totally against them though I would be normal to them and treat the same as anyone else unless they did something gay.

Gays are wrong and are growing in numbers, so if i supported it I would be supporting the extiction of the human race, no babes = no humans.
As long as they the the f*uck away from me I don't care but theres no way in hell I would still be friends with one of my friends if they turn gay.
I personally prefer lesbains then gays because they acually can have children, by going to a sperm bank. Two babies is better then one so im all for that...then again if i was rasied against two lesbians I think I would be pretty twisted...kids that get raised without a father figure in their life tun out wierd. But meh nothing I say will matter unless I do something about it, which I won't so I say this thread smell like fail to me.

Morons like you prevent the human race from advancing and living in peace. Are you religious to boot? You deserve a punch in the face IRL, lulz

[NeverSoft]

*inhales deep breath* Ok my view of gays is.... They are wrong..not natural and should die. Marriage is a thing for straight people stop trying to get in the door you already came outta the closet. I'm not totally against them though I would be normal to them and treat the same as anyone else unless they did something gay.

Gays are wrong and are growing in numbers, so if i supported it I would be supporting the extiction of the human race, no babes = no humans.
As long as they the the f*uck away from me I don't care but theres no way in hell I would still be friends with one of my friends if they turn gay.
I personally prefer lesbains then gays because they acually can have children, by going to a sperm bank. Two babies is better then one so im all for that...then again if i was rasied against two lesbians I think I would be pretty twisted...kids that get raised without a father figure in their life tun out wierd. But meh nothing I say will matter unless I do something about it, which I won't so I say this thread smell like fail to me.

Oh wow. You are one complete and utter jackass. If I had not already -repped you I would do it again for what you just said.

There are kids that are raised without father figures, should single mothers have their children taken away and thrown into adoption?

The friends thing is just fucking retarded, they were gay BEFORE they told you, and may I emphasize dramaticly THEY ARE THE SAME FUCKING PERSON!


Yes, and in a perfect world we wouldn't need to pay out tax dollars to a police force and an army, but you don't see me voting to take either of those institutions down. Point being, you have to take into the situation at hand, not just flock after idealism. If it was a more accepted thing I wouldn't have a problem with them adopting, but right now it isn't, so I don't agree with it. I'm for slowly changing things, not just rushing in headfirst.

Now I am not asking everyone to be happy and hunky dorry, I mean look at racism. I just want gays to have the RIGHTS thats all, not treatment changes or anything. Be able to adopt, and marry.

[Inactive Cargo]

$5 says Spanky Ham is a Christian.

Christians fuck up society so badly.

[Shins]

No group of people deserves to have Spanky Ham claim them as his own.

[System_Zero]

*inhales deep breath* Ok my view of gays is.... They are wrong..not natural and should die. Marriage is a thing for straight people stop trying to get in the door you already came outta the closet. I'm not totally against them though I would be normal to them and treat the same as anyone else unless they did something gay.

Gays are wrong and are growing in numbers, so if i supported it I would be supporting the extiction of the human race, no babes = no humans.
As long as they the the f*uck away from me I don't care but theres no way in hell I would still be friends with one of my friends if they turn gay.
I personally prefer lesbains then gays because they acually can have children, by going to a sperm bank. Two babies is better then one so im all for that...then again if i was rasied against two lesbians I think I would be pretty twisted...kids that get raised without a father figure in their life tun out wierd. But meh nothing I say will matter unless I do something about it, which I won't so I say this thread smell like fail to me.

That has got to be the most retarded thing to ever come out of a human being's mouth. If people didn't like you before this, they certainly will now.

[NeverSoft]

$5 says Spanky Ham is a Christian.

Christians fuck up society so badly.

You know you don't need to generalize a whole group of people. Some of us can be educated and think for ourselfs.

[System_Zero]

Saddly, people like Mr. Ham here have ruined it for everyone. So it's to be expected.

[Inactive Cargo]

You know you don't need to generalize a whole group of people. Some of us can be educated and think for ourselfs.The irony is if you were educated and could think for yourselves you'd be like:

"Oh! Evolution tears the shit out of the Bible. So... are there any other doctrines that aren't bullshit that mention the Christian God as real?
SELECT * FROM `other_doctrines` WHERE `validates_christianity` = TRUE
>> 0 rows returned
Well I guess I should shut the fuck up and stop holding back society by bitching about evolution, stem cell research, gay marriage and abortion"

[NeverSoft]

The irony is if you were educated and could think for yourselves you'd be like:

"Oh! Evolution tears the shit out of the Bible. So... are there any other doctrines that aren't bullshit that mention the Christian God as real?
SELECT * FROM `other_doctrines` WHERE `validates_christianity` = TRUE
>> 0 rows returned
Well I guess I should shut the fuck up and stop holding back society by bitching about evolution, stem cell research, gay marriage and abortion"

Hey wait two fucking seconds and read the posts I have made through this topic. You have to be stupid to think that any group of people are all one way. Evolution is still contravertial and the bible at times is a work of Literature! It conveys messages of many important things, the overall morales are things that both you and I live by. I believe in a higher being, and you don't. And don't make programming jokes at me.

And plenty of scientists believe in God just so you know. Pay more attention to the world around you and maybe you would have known that.

You are making a generalization of MILLIONS of people. The couple of idiots that make the news and 700 club don't acurately potray the many people who are religious.

I am fighting a battle that can't be won but I just thought I would tell you my side so that maybe you could stop being ignorant.

[Zandrel]

*inhales deep breath* Ok my view of gays is.... They are wrong..not natural and should die. Marriage is a thing for straight people stop trying to get in the door you already came outta the closet. I'm not totally against them though I would be normal to them and treat the same as anyone else unless they did something gay.

Gays are wrong and are growing in numbers, so if i supported it I would be supporting the extiction of the human race, no babes = no humans.
As long as they the the f*uck away from me I don't care but theres no way in hell I would still be friends with one of my friends if they turn gay.
I personally prefer lesbains then gays because they acually can have children, by going to a sperm bank. Two babies is better then one so im all for that...then again if i was rasied against two lesbians I think I would be pretty twisted...kids that get raised without a father figure in their life tun out wierd. But meh nothing I say will matter unless I do something about it, which I won't so I say this thread smell like fail to me.

GD i can't believe i read all that its like some autistic black person was saying the whole thing in my mind.

Seriously just imagine it as you read that.

[NeverSoft]

GD i can't believe i read all that its like some autistic black person was saying the whole thing in my mind.

Seriously just imagine it as you read that.

Hm, yeah I can see that, I can see that.

[Inactive Cargo]

Evolution is still contravertialSELECT * FROM `whose_fault_is_that_now`
(I'll give you a hint, it returns one row that begins in 'C' and ends in "hristianity")


And plenty of scientists believe in God just so you know.More don't believe in him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#Belief_in_a_personal_ God_among_scientists


Belief in a personal God among scientists
In one study, 90% of the general population surveyed professed a distinct belief in a personal god and afterlife, while only 40% of the scientists with a BS surveyed did so, and only 10% of those considered "eminent."[1]. Another study found that mathematicians were just over 40%, biologists just under 30%, and physicists were barely over 20% likely to believe in God.[2]

A 1998 survey[3] by Larson and Witham of the 517 members of the United States National Academy of Sciences showed that 72.2% of the members expressed "personal disbelief" in a personal God while 20.8% expressed "doubt or agnosticism" and only 7.0% expressed "personal belief". This was a follow-up to their own earlier 1996 study[4] which itself was a follow-up to a 1916 study by James Leuba[5].


I am fighting a battle that can't be won but I just thought I would tell you my side so that maybe you could stop being ignorant.Why can't it be won? Because science continually undermines your faith? Why go down with the ship?

[NeverSoft]

Because it was I believe in. You don't understand because of your beliefs.

Watch some of the NOVA stuff on religion you would be surprised about the 'science' behind the bible.

And scientists still debate on evolution disregarding religion.

So 10% believe in a god huh? Well fine ok then that still means that some of them do. You make it seem like science completely wipes out any possibility for faith to exist but yet people who are highly advanced in that EXACT field still believe in God.

BACK ON TOPIC! Gay marriage going in front of Mass voters again in '08 most likely. Many states have banned it. SHould they be allowed to marry. Yes, there are advantages other than just the names. Filing joint taxes amoung other things.

[Inactive Cargo]

Watch some of the NOVA stuff on religion you would be surprised about the 'science' behind the bible.Surprise me.


And scientists still debate on evolution disregarding religion.And thus far have proposed no theory that comes close to matching evolution in terms of empirical evidence. Except intelligent design, which everybody knows is right because the Bible says so.


So 10% believe in a god huh? Well fine ok then that still means that some of them do. You make it seem like science completely wipes out any possibility for faith to exist but yet people who are highly advanced in that EXACT field still believe in God.And? You said yourself that it's the minority that we should be ignoring.

[Evonus]

Would you hold infertile straight couples to the same rule though? They can't naturally have children either. So far as the teasing is concerned, I concur with what Hacky said: kids are going to get picked. It's part of growing up. You could say that being gay was a choice, and the kid didn't get to decide his parents, but then, being poor is a choice, if you want to take this to an extreme, so then, should we not let poor people have children.

And once we've done that, what's to stop us from not allowing anyone but the most ideal of potential parents reproduce? That kind of selectivity is certainly working wonders for the adoption agencies of the world.

It's not even so much the fact that they can't naturally reproduce, it's mainly the fact that their kid will be harassed. Now, once homosexuality becomes more accepted as other races have, I would be all for them adopting, but as of right now, I just think things should be done in a more moderate manner. If you try to rush forward too fast you'll end up stumbling.

Another reason I'm currently opposed to this is because without the right to marry homosexuals tend to change partners a lot, and I don't think that's really healthy for kids to have their parents/guardians constantly changing.

[Mooters]

Oh yeah, the human race is at such risk of extenction! I mean, just look around you! China is so underpopulated, we clearly need to stop homosexuality because of what it's doing to us!

Not natural? Homosexual monkeys, horses, and wolves anybody? We see it in nature. It comes out in points of time which overpopulation is prevelant, and it helps stop it. Guess what? The Human population has never been more overpopulated than it is right now.

Btw, your comment about no longer being friends with somebody, sickening. Sorry, just because they're gay doesn't mean they're suddenly different people.

Actually, very true. you know in the next century or so, our population will be doubled. Their will be no space, food, land, anything for the people in the future.
So, being a homosexual will not do any kind of harm to the human population.

It's also funny, Jesus never said anything about being gay was wrong.
And homosexuality wasn't a big issue till later.
Just people tend to add shit in the bible, now they say internet addiction is the devil's work. Just any kind of problem they see, they think of it as the devil's work, and then it goes agenst their religion. Geeze, Religious people dont know how to have fun.

If you masturbate, it's bad
If you drink, it's bad.
If you play WoW, it's bad.
If you're gay, it's bad.
If you like pokemon, it's bad. :<
If you like Halloween, it's bad

Everyone, you're going to hell, enjoy.

[Evonus]

Hey wait two fucking seconds and read the posts I have made through this topic. You have to be stupid to think that any group of people are all one way.

You, NeverSoft, along with about 5 other people I know absolutely spark my interest in how people can disagree and contradict nearly everything in a faith and still call themselves members of that religion. Why bother holding onto it?


Evolution is still contravertial

It's really no more controversial than the theory of gravity. The only reason it isn't highly accepted is because more people are Christian than educated, and it contradicts the bible.


and the bible at times is a work of Literature! It conveys messages of many important things, the overall morales are things that both you and I live by.

You can believe in morals and not cling to a diety.


I believe in a higher being, and you don't. And don't make programming jokes at me.

You can believe in a higher entity and not be Christian. Ever heard of deism? I honestly suggest you look into it, I think it would fit you better.


You are making a generalization of MILLIONS of people. The couple of idiots that make the news and 700 club don't accurately portray the many people who are religious.

Anyone who follows Judaism, Christianity, or Islam still defies the logic of the studies done around them, and that's why IC and many others don't respect them no matter what.

[Mooters]

As I see it, religion are just a way of explaining something, without sciences.
Also, religion is an other way of telling you how to live your live, without you having control.

Science+porn+respect+tolerance-religion = tomorrow

NO ONE CARES FAGGOT GO BACK TO FARMING THANKS

[Evonus]

As I see it, religion are just a way of explaining something, without sciences.
Also, religion is an other way of telling you how to live your live, without you having control.

Science+porn+respect+tolerance-religion = tomorrow

NO ONE CARES FAGGOT GO BACK TO FARMING THANKS

Mooters, I love you, let's make e-babies together. :D

[Kinetix]

*inhales deep breath* Ok my view of gays is.... They are wrong..not natural and should die. Marriage is a thing for straight people stop trying to get in the door you already came outta the closet. I'm not totally against them though I would be normal to them and treat the same as anyone else unless they did something gay.

Gays are wrong and are growing in numbers, so if i supported it I would be supporting the extiction of the human race, no babes = no humans.
As long as they the the f*uck away from me I don't care but theres no way in hell I would still be friends with one of my friends if they turn gay.
I personally prefer lesbains then gays because they acually can have children, by going to a sperm bank. Two babies is better then one so im all for that...then again if i was rasied against two lesbians I think I would be pretty twisted...kids that get raised without a father figure in their life tun out wierd. But meh nothing I say will matter unless I do something about it, which I won't so I say this thread smell like fail to me.



Let me put this in perspective. I am assuming you are around 10 years old you naive shit.

Lesbians adopt. Very few will ever go to a sperm bank. That would defeat the purpose of actually being lesbian. Once again your assholish evangelical self is showing. Male dominance is not needed to raise a child successfully. Two parents can do it, be it girl girl, or guy guy. My friend was raised in a family of deaf parents. She is not deaf. Does this mean she is twisted? Your fucking thought process doesn't make sense to me.

The world is overpopulated. By 2020 we will run low on sources of energy. China has over 1/3 of the worlds population. It will be a long long time before the lot of us die out. By that time anyway, we should be dead anyway. It's only right. That way a new supreme species will rule the planet in our wake.



If you masturbate, it's bad
If you drink, it's bad.
If you play WoW, it's bad.
If you're gay, it's bad.
If you like pokemon, it's bad. :<
If you like Halloween, it's bad


Apparently I'm going to hell. Well spanky, if you'll be in heaven the last place I would want to be would be the same place as you. Not even god would put up with your ignorance. Not only that 10 to 1 he doesn't exist. So your fucked anyway. Good game.

[System_Zero]

You quoted the wrong person on that last one. :P

Taking away someone's rights simply because you are against it is complete and utter bullshit. Alot of people where against Blacks voting or drinking from the same water fountain. Does that mean those people where right in wanting to take away the rights of another people simply because they where against it?

[Mooters]

Mooters, I love you, let's make e-babies together. :D

Sounds like a plan. :)

Oh yes, I rather die than go to heaven. :<
And who care if people are gay? or what not? spanky.
I know plenty of gay/lesbians, they're no different from us, just their Orientation.
They deserve everyone right like everyone else does.
This isn't Germany Asshole, and we aren't Nazi's.

[Spanky Ham]

And who care if people are gay? or what not? spanky.
I know plenty of gay/lesbians, they're no different from us, just their Orientation.
They deserve everyone right like everyone else does.
This isn't Germany Asshole, and we aren't Nazi's.

Alright I did word that a bit bad but that was pretty much similar how I think.
Looks like I'm gonna have to clear things up, and if you still disagreeing on how I think then stiff shit.
I'm not some neo-nazi 10 year old running up and down the streets say FUCK GAYS!!! And I wouldn't go omgz mate u r gay?! die! I'd be more like wtf?! you have sex with men...please don't crack onto me i know its hard..One of my friends did turn gay I just slowly stopped talking to him basically because it became too awkward for me and him.
I don't really "hate" gays just don't want to be involved with them. As a rebuttal: THEY HAVE SEX WITH MEN! two men just makes me feel sick I'm sorry but thats not right. I use the term die and recently cancer(lol I bet I will get it because I say that) way too easy, but thats just my speech doesn't sound all that bad in person, just sounds fully evil on a forums as it is hard for me to say what I mean on forums. I find it funny this stirred up so much crap but still I'm anti-gay, don't like them, but I'm not going to do anything so chill..

Funnily enough I agree Cargo but not as specifically as him religions just fuck things up, theres many references in history and in the bible(then again a fair bit of it a believe is a work of fiction so who can trust it). I used to be a Christian but then i got hit by common sense and realized that i was making friends with someone invisible and closing my eyes and asking him help to me and the rest of the world. But I'm not against Christians I go to a Christian school i think all my mates are one, but worship is the work of god but religion is the work of the devil since how much evil it has caused.

Back to gays, I know we aren't going to go extinct because of us all turning gay we are probably gonna kill ourselves 50 other ways before that will happen, I'm just saying our bodies didn't evolve(or were created) to have gay sex, don't do it.

Oh right but if I'm wrong about this(probably am) According to the bible or whatever the other religions go off, I'm going to go to hell or something similar but I don't care because i am going to live my life as best I can and be a good person and die happy.

Yep thats about it btw I find it funny how I'm am being persecuted for disagreeing against gays when in the last 100 years or so it was totally the opposite. That just made me chuckle a bit. Feel free to quote and pick the shit out of this post and try not to be too obnoxious to listen to what I'm saying, instead of just arguing against me because you don't like me.

[Inactive Cargo]

As are rebuttal: THEY HAVE SEX WITH MEN!As "are" rebuttal: THEY ALSO LOVE EACH OTHER

[Spanky Ham]

So what some people love themselfs does that mean its alright for them to fuck themselves?

[Kinetix]

Alright I did word that a bit bad but that was pretty much similar how I think.
Looks like I'm gonna have to clear things up, and if you still disagreeing on how I think then stiff shit.
I'm not some neo-nazi 10 year old running up and down the streets say FUCK GAYS!!! And I wouldn't go omgz mate u r gay?! die! I'd be more like wtf?! you have sex with men...please don't crack onto me i know its hard..One of my friends did turn gay I just slowly stopped talking to him basically because it became too awkward for me and him.
I don't really "hate" gays just don't want to be involved with them. As a rebuttal: THEY HAVE SEX WITH MEN! two men just makes me feel sick I'm sorry but thats not right. I use the term die and recently cancer(lol I bet I will get it because I say that) way too easy, but thats just my speech doesn't sound all that bad in person, just sounds fully evil on a forums as it is hard for me to say what I mean on forums. I find it funny this stirred up so much crap but still I'm anti-gay, don't like them, but I'm not going to do anything so chill..

Funnily enough I agree Cargo but not as specifically as him religions just fuck things up, theres many references in history and in the bible(then again a fair bit of it a believe is a work of fiction so who can trust it). I used to be a Christian but then i got hit by common sense and realized that i was making friends with someone invisible and closing my eyes and asking him help to me and the rest of the world. But I'm not against Christians I go to a Christian school i think all my mates are one, but worship is the work of god but religion is the work of the devil since how much evil it has caused.

Back to gays, I know we aren't going to go extinct because of us all turning gay we are probably gonna kill ourselves 50 other ways before that will happen, I'm just saying our bodies didn't evolve(or were created) to have gay sex, don't do it.

Oh right but if I'm wrong about this(probably am) According to the bible or whatever the other religions go off, I'm going to go to hell or something similar but I don't care because i am going to live my life as best I can and be a good person and die happy.

Yep thats about it btw I find it funny how I'm am being persecuted for disagreeing against gays when in the last 100 years or so it was totally the opposite. That just made me chuckle a bit. Feel free to quote and pick the shit out of this post and try not to be too obnoxious to listen to what I'm saying, instead of just arguing against me because you don't like me.


Maybe one day you'll get your head out of your ass and start stopping changing your stories. Now your against christianity?

[Slevin57]

Well I am gay for all intents and purposes, so obviously I support Gay Marriage and adoption.

There is absolutely no legitimate reason to not allow gay couples to adopt a child to the exact same specifications they allow straight couples to adopt.

We do not take away children from single mothers, or single fathers, so throw the needing a man and women in the house argument out the door. I know plenty of gay people that if I didn't tell you they were gay you'd assume they were June and Ward Cleaver.

There are plenty of straight couplles that neglect there children, and there are (hopefully) even more that treat their children very well.

I do want to have children one day and would not hesitate to adopt, even if it was a man-woman situation. There is no reason to have even one more orphan in the world when there is a family willing to take them in and care for them as their own.

[Spanky Ham]

Yea fair enough slevin I love little kids, don't force gay on your kids though be good and let them choose. kinetix i said I'm against religion not Christianity and I'm standing by that.

[Inactive Cargo]

don't force gay on your kids though be good and let them choose.What the fuck asshole? You're getting a dose of -REP as soon as I can give it to you.

[Spanky Ham]

So I take it your insulted which means you won't, good.

[Slevin57]

Don't force straight on your kids Spanky?

What's to say children are not genetically gay as much as they are genetically straight.

[Spanky Ham]

Nothing...And I'm not gonna force anything on my kids, ill let them do anything they want well in boundaries of course, and ill support them.

EDIT: I'm not posting any more on this thread, I've had my serving of -rep for a while.

[Shins]

It's not even so much the fact that they can't naturally reproduce, it's mainly the fact that their kid will be harassed. Now, once homosexuality becomes more accepted as other races have, I would be all for them adopting, but as of right now, I just think things should be done in a more moderate manner. If you try to rush forward too fast you'll end up stumbling.

I see where you're coming from here, but I think it's a circular argument; homosexuality won't be accepted if these kind of arbitrary restrictions are left in place. I don't mean to shove equality down someone's throat, but baby-steps only work for so long. Eventually, you've got to make some real strides. And I think in some areas, that's happening. Marriage is just one more.

I suppose part of the problem here is that the baby-step I'd expect, civil union, isn't in place right now.


Another reason I'm currently opposed to this is because without the right to marry homosexuals tend to change partners a lot, and I don't think that's really healthy for kids to have their parents/guardians constantly changing.

Though the problem of changing parental figures is valid, I don't think you can relate it to homosexuals only: if you're going to be opposed to this, shouldn't you be opposed to any unmarried couple having children? Just because straight people can get married doesn't mean they do, and even then, the high divorce rates show that marriage isn't a be-all, end-all to sticking together.

It actually might be worse if the parents feel obligated to stick around; that's gotta suck for the kid.

[System_Zero]

So what some people love themselfs does that mean its alright for them to fuck themselves?

So now your against masturbation too? Dear god man what the fuck is wrong with you. I seriously hope you get kicked in the nuts so hard that you'll never be able to produce any offspring ever again.

[Shins]

wot si masterbatan?

[Slevin57]

I see where you're coming from here, but I think it's a circular argument; homosexuality won't be accepted if these kind of arbitrary restrictions are left in place. I don't mean to shove equality down someone's throat, but baby-steps only work for so long. Eventually, you've got to make some real strides. And I think in some areas, that's happening. Marriage is just one more.

I suppose part of the problem here is that the baby-step I'd expect, civil union, isn't in place right now.



Though the problem of changing parental figures is valid, I don't think you can relate it to homosexuals only: if you're going to be opposed to this, shouldn't you be opposed to any unmarried couple having children? Just because straight people can get married doesn't mean they do, and even then, the high divorce rates show that marriage isn't a be-all, end-all to sticking together.

It actually might be worse if the parents feel obligated to stick around; that's gotta suck for the kid.

Mr. Shins, for the sake of argument you yourself said you were against gay adoption in the first post you made in the topic. I content that view is also placing a restriction on the homosexual community :P Have you since changed your view on Gaybaby's :P?

[Slevin57]

Nothing...And I'm not gonna force anything on my kids, ill let them do anything they want well in boundaries of course, and ill support them.

EDIT: I'm not posting any more on this thread, I've had my serving of -rep for a while.

Well I haven't -rep'd you. In the only reason I'd ever -rep somone in the serious discussion section if they spammed or didn't present an opinion. You are entitled to your opinion...I just happen to think its wrong, but it is your opinion none the less.

[Shins]

Mr. Shins, for the sake of argument you yourself said you were against gay adoption in the first post you made in the topic. I content that view is also placing a restriction on the homosexual community :P Have you since changed your view on Gaybaby's :P?

What fantasy world do you live in?


My own view is pretty straightforward: gays have a right to be gay, and that's it. They accept any hardships that stem from that, and have as much right as anyone else to try and change their positions in life or society for the better. And I say good luck.

I'm all for gay rights. What I'm not for is handing out special treatment to anyone based on sexual orientation, just being politically correct because it's "nice" and "fair." That's not how reality works. You work for what you want. That's how you get it.

If homosexuals want to be able to have children, they can go crawl through the shit they're crawling through right now and get it. No easy, automatic hand-outs. If anyone ever asks me if I support their fight, I'll say I do. If anyone puts it to a vote, I will put down "yes" on my ballot. But the brunt of actually getting the necessary support for such a vote to take place lies with those whose lives such a law would affect directly. For any empathy I might hold, I am not gay. I do not lead a gay lifestyle, and it is not a problem for me to tackle.

I have my own. Being stuck in the shat-upon middle class is enough for me at the moment, thanks.

[Erosennin]

Gays do have rights as they are human beings, marriage just by each other a ring and wear it it won't be official but be alot better than most of the sham marriages that happen. To be married you must believe in god and as it's not accepted in the church who "represent" god (If they didn't they have now right to publish a bible as it represents god.), so homosexuality would be a crime in "his" world your marriage would be theologically unholy.

In a real world the should be able to marry and if the Christians jump up and down about it, you can tell them if it's wrong they will have to deal with god.

I don't believe in god i did once but as you grow and see the world around you change it just doesn't seem like a bigger being is out there BUT don't turn this on religion please.

[System_Zero]

FYI marriage is regulated by the state. If you needed to believe in go to get married, then Buddhists, Atheists, Hindus and anything that wasn't founded by Judaism since you need god and a church.

But then that would totally negate the separation of church and state, or a marriage license for that mater. Also you don't need a church or ceremony or a priest to get married. All you need is a trip to City Hall to pick up a marriage license and you're officially married. The church, ceremony and priest is all done for show.

[Mooters]

I vote Spanky Ham to be the biggest douche of this thread.
Alot of things need to cleared here.

[NeverSoft]

Feel free to quote and pick the shit out of this post and try not to be too obnoxious to listen to what I'm saying, instead of just arguing against me because you don't like me.

Well...If you insist.


Alright I did word that a bit bad but that was pretty much similar how I think.
Looks like I'm gonna have to clear things up, and if you still disagreeing on how I think then stiff shit.
I'm not some neo-nazi 10 year old running up and down the streets say FUCK GAYS!!! And I wouldn't go omgz mate u r gay?! die! I'd be more like wtf?! you have sex with men...please don't crack onto me i know its hard..One of my friends did turn gay I just slowly stopped talking to him basically because it became too awkward for me and him.
I don't really "hate" gays just don't want to be involved with them. As a rebuttal: THEY HAVE SEX WITH MEN! two men just makes me feel sick I'm sorry but thats not right. I use the term die and recently cancer(lol I bet I will get it because I say that) way too easy, but thats just my speech doesn't sound all that bad in person, just sounds fully evil on a forums as it is hard for me to say what I mean on forums. I find it funny this stirred up so much crap but still I'm anti-gay, don't like them, but I'm not going to do anything so chill..

You are a fucking ignorant bastard. Plain and simple. I really don't hate gays, its just I hate them... Your rebuttal would be like screaming out random swear words in the middle of a debate, it is unfounded and only hurts your own case. I can't believe that you would lose a friend over him being gay. Gay people tend to know not to hit on you or anything creepy like that so what the fuck difference does it make. He went from being one person, to being the exact same person you know more about. You were friends with him for a reason you jackass.


Yep thats about it btw I find it funny how I'm am being persecuted for disagreeing against gays when in the last 100 years or so it was totally the opposite.

WHAT ARE YOU STUPID! Yeah and the same EXACT thing could have been said as black people were gaining their rights, if you want to talk about 100 years back as an argument then you would never get anything changed, there would be no progress at all. I mean think before you type.

[Hacky]

Nothing...And I'm not gonna force anything on my kids, ill let them do anything they want well in boundaries of course, and ill support them.

EDIT: I'm not posting any more on this thread, I've had my serving of -rep for a while.

If you can't be friends with somebody who turned gay, how can you support your son if he decides he's gay?

You'll just be another parents who disowns his child because he's gay. You talk about all this Gays shouldn't have the same rights, and they are unnatural, yet you then try to claim if you had a child who was gay, you'd have no problem with it? You'd not try to convience them otherwise? Bullshit. If you honestly believe that, then why is it that your child suddenly has more rights than the rest of the world?

[Shins]

"Well hacky... id have a problem with it, but id deal, yknoww ... GAYS BURN IN HELL"

[Kinetix]

Yea fair enough slevin I love little kids, don't force gay on your kids though be good and let them choose. kinetix i said I'm against religion not Christianity and I'm standing by that.

Your a total fucking idiot. FYI christianity is a RELIGION douchebag. On top of that trying to tell slev how to raise his kids, which is wrong. Please, leave this board.


Say one more thing so I can rip your false sense of security, extremist opinion, and morals to absolute shreds. I haven't even pulled out half of my real debate yet.

[Napalm]

There should be no arguements on Gay Rights. It's pretty straightforward: They are people, they are humans, they deserve all the rights everyone else has.

[Spanky Ham]

Kinetix, stopp being a douche bag and putting words into my mouth, im not targeting christianity just religion... Go to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200

[Inactive Cargo]

Kinetix, stopp being a douche bag and putting words into my mouth, im not targeting christianity just religion... Go to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200Shut the fuck up.

[Avarik]

CAAAAAAAANT BREAK ME DOWN

BURY ME BURY ME

I AM FINISHHHHHHED WITH YOOOOOUUU

[Shins]

Kinetix, stopp being a douche bag and putting words into my mouth, im not targeting christianity just religion...

NOW HEAR THIS, NOW HEAR THIS:

"Christianity no longer classified as a religion," Maverick theologian Spanky Ham decrees!

[Kinetix]

Kinetix, stopp being a douche bag and putting words into my mouth, im not targeting christianity just religion... Go to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200

Isn't that unfortunate. I don't believe in christianity therefore I don't believe in hell. Can't go somewhere I don't believe. Looks like I owned christianity again. Quit taking my insults btw. How can you target religion in general and not target christianity. You know that christianity is included in a religion pie chart right? I see what your doing. Your trying to slam everything else while allowing christianity to slip by as "perfect". Well it isn't working. Oh, and to answer your other question the -repping won't stop. Every one of your posts is retarded regardless.


Now get back to debating. I didn't come here for a flame war. Especially in serious discussion.

[Spanky Ham]

Don't believe in hell? Well that that case go to a fiery pit where you be abused and molested for 1000000000 years. Nope christianity is far from perfect its fucked like all the other religions and your face :)

[Shins]

He's not even using English anymore.

[Spanky Ham]

You guys can't accept my views on life, I'm anti-gay, anti-Religionist and if you can't accept that, GTFO, cause im not going to.

[Shins]

anti-Religionist

So you're anti-"exaggerated or pretended religious zeal." Wow, that's really fucking unique, 'cause I know most people love that kind of shit!

This is what happens when you try to use a big word without actually comprehending what it means. And then you throw an anti in front of the whole business, and a hyphen, and BLAM, you're awesome.

Yeah. :thumup:

[Spanky Ham]

Wow great job you don't adres what I say just the words I use, you know what I mean....I'm sick of this thread so I'm not posting here anymore, mtr_kinetix is totally right, for once..If you want to pick a fight with me post on my thread in the flames section.



Now get back to debating. I didn't come here for a flame war. Especially in serious discussion.

[Zandrel]

Nothing...And I'm not gonna force anything on my kids, ill let them do anything they want well in boundaries of course, and ill support them.

EDIT: I'm not posting any more on this thread, I've had my serving of -rep for a while.



You guys can't accept my views on life, I'm anti-gay, anti-Religionist and if you can't accept that, GTFO, cause im not going to.

Your such an idiot. How old are you 12? Your posts are filled with ignorance and stupidity. This entire thread you have just been repeating yourself post after spelling error filled post. "I HAIT GAEYS AND KRISTIANZ". You may be trying to prove a point but you have no arguments to support you reasons.

Therefor i can safely deem you a MASSIVE FAILURE.

[Shins]

Wow great job you don't adres what I say just the words I use, you know what I mean....

No, that's just the thing you fucking cockgoblin: I don't know what you mean. As I displayed through the deconstruction of the words you used in my above post, the very terms you use do not make any kind of sense. You haven't expanded on your views. I'm not joking with you when I say you're not using English: I seriously mean that your obvious loose grip on the language we use to communicate is hampering your (already low) ability to express an opinion, and equally hampers my ability to hear, understand, and respond to your posts.

That's not a baseless flame, cum-nugget. It's a real issue. I can't respond to gobbledygook, and nether can anyone else. Maybe someone with more patience can sort through your horrible spelling and grammar and find some fraction of meaning in your shit, but I'm not going to. Restate your points clearly, and maybe you'll get lucky and make some kind of point.

But I'm sure you won't post again, since you said you wouldn't (twice)! :clap:

[Slevin57]

You guys can't accept my views on life, I'm anti-gay, anti-Religionist and if you can't accept that, GTFO, cause im not going to.

Where does your distaste for homosexuality come from?

From nature? Would you like examples of homosexuality in nature?

[System_Zero]

So you're anti-religion, not anti-Christian. Even though Christianity (Well any Judaic based faith really) is the only major opposer to gays. So you're anti-religion excuse fails.

So if hell isn't real to you then what gives you the right to take a right that any other person can experience regardless of disability, race, religion or nationality but not sexual preference?

[Inactive Cargo]

Thank God for Atheism.

[Napalm]

So you're anti-"exaggerated or pretended religious zeal." Wow, that's really fucking unique, 'cause I know most people love that kind of shit!

This is what happens when you try to use a big word without actually comprehending what it means. And then you throw an anti in front of the whole business, and a hyphen, and BLAM, you're awesome.

Yeah. :thumup:
Enjoy the extra point of rep power I just gave you for that OWN.

[Kinetix]

Wow great job you don't adres what I say just the words I use, you know what I mean....I'm sick of this thread so I'm not posting here anymore, mtr_kinetix is totally right, for once..If you want to pick a fight with me post on my thread in the flames section.

Don't take my words. You of all people don't deserve them. I agree with IC. Thank god for atheism. If your anti-religionist than don't preach god. Don't use the bible as a base for your arguement. Show us your not a dolt. Starting now.


Fuck guys FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME CHRISTIANITY IS NOT A RELIGION!

:P

[Napalm]

It's not?
O shi!

[Slevin57]

Main Entry: Chris&#183;tian&#183;i&#183;ty
Pronunciation: "kris-chE-'a-n&-tE, "krish-, -'cha-n&-, "kris-tE-'a-
Function: noun
1 : the religion derived from Jesus Christ , based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies

Webster'D

[Kinetix]

Main Entry: Chris·tian·i·ty
Pronunciation: "kris-chE-'a-n&-tE, "krish-, -'cha-n&-, "kris-tE-'a-
Function: noun
1 : the religion derived from Jesus Christ , based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies

Webster'D

Spanky said it wasn't a religion T_________________________T



wut a liar mi rite

[Orbixx]

I hate gay threads like these.

[BhueGo]

FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME CHRISTIANITY IS NOT A RELIGION!

:P

ok Explain how you dont find christianity a religion? Im missing your point:think:

[Orbixx]

Notice the ":P" at the end there? That might allow you to hit the point, hopefully, it will be a very sharp and deadly point.

[mwknowles92]

Well anyways...
As a member of the very real Christian religion (non-denominational), I'd like to say that I don't think gay marriage/sex/whatever else fits there is OK. Relations were meant to be between a man and a woman. It's in all of nature too, males reproduce with females, not other males. Males can't reproduce for a reason (except for the male gulf pipefish found in this link: http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/061205_male_pregnancy.html).

[Inactive Cargo]

It's in all of nature too, males reproduce with females, not other males.We've found evidence of gay whales.

[Hacky]

And wolves, and horses.

[mwknowles92]

We've found evidence of gay whales.
Oh, I didn't know that. Is there anything wrong with them such as missing genes or no females within a 20 mile radius or something like that? Because if not, then you proved one of my major points wrong. But I still don't think that it's natural.

[Coolguy]

If gayness was illegal....

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n72/Nelo-Tattoo/TIT.gif

I wouldnt be able to see that.

[mwknowles92]

OK then

[Shins]

Oh, I didn't know that. Is there anything wrong with them such as missing genes or no females within a 20 mile radius or something like that? Because if not, then you proved one of my major points wrong. But I still don't think that it's natural.

But... if its proven to you that is does in fact occur in nature, that would mean it is natural, and that it simply offends you on a personal level. There's nothing wrong with that: your view, your opinion. It just means that particular argument is invalid and that it doesn't matter if you think it's natural or not, because, if it's proven that it is, it is regardless of how you feel.

[The muffin man]

They're humans aren't they?

[Evonus]

I see where you're coming from here, but I think it's a circular argument; homosexuality won't be accepted if these kind of arbitrary restrictions are left in place. I don't mean to shove equality down someone's throat, but baby-steps only work for so long. Eventually, you've got to make some real strides. And I think in some areas, that's happening. Marriage is just one more.

Yes, but I don't think that's the stride we need right now. I'd rather see gay marriage become accepted and legalized before we get into the adoption thing.


I suppose part of the problem here is that the baby-step I'd expect, civil union, isn't in place right now.

Which is definitely a shame, but because society as a whole is so rejecting of it to not even allow civil unions I don't think it's fair to place that kind of extra burden on a child.


Though the problem of changing parental figures is valid, I don't think you can relate it to homosexuals only: if you're going to be opposed to this, shouldn't you be opposed to any unmarried couple having children? Just because straight people can get married doesn't mean they do, and even then, the high divorce rates show that marriage isn't a be-all, end-all to sticking together.

It is statistically higher for homosexual than for straight parents. As I've stated, I wish to enact these measures out of statistics of the current situation, not out of any idealism, so I mean in all honesty, not letting non married straight couples adopt would be something I'd shoot for, but I don't see it as realistically feasible.


It actually might be worse if the parents feel obligated to stick around; that's gotta suck for the kid.

Depends on how much the kid actually sees.

Just to recap, I'm not against homosexuals, I just think the current context is not permissible enough for them to have children. As of right now I would vote yes on Gay marriage and no on Gay adoption. 30 years down the road it would probably be yes for both.

[Evonus]

Well anyways...
As a member of the very real Christian religion (non-denominational), I'd like to say that I don't think gay marriage/sex/whatever else fits there is OK. Relations were meant to be between a man and a woman. It's in all of nature too, males reproduce with females, not other males. Males can't reproduce for a reason (except for the male gulf pipefish found in this link: http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/061205_male_pregnancy.html).

If God was really against Homosexuality, and he was the ultimate omnipotent creator, why would he make it possible for people to be homosexual? I mean it isn't even a choice, it's a genetic mutation. So that's like God hating cripples even though people are born crippled. It's pretty sick when you think about it.

[Kinetix]

If gayness was illegal....

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n72/Nelo-Tattoo/TIT.gif

I wouldnt be able to see that.

More.

[Inactive Cargo]

If God was really against Homosexuality, and he was the ultimate omnipotent creator, why would he make it possible for people to be homosexual? I mean it isn't even a choice, it's a genetic mutation. So that's like God hating cripples even though people are born crippled. It's pretty sick when you think about it.That's assuming God is real, but he isn't.

[Evonus]

That's assuming God is real, but he isn't.

Although I agree with you IC, you need to pick your battles. I'm much more likely to convince him that the God against homosexuals things is propaganda, than to to convince him his religion is fake.

[mwknowles92]

Natural meaning it wasn't a mutation or anything....


If God was really against Homosexuality, and he was the ultimate omnipotent creator, why would he make it possible for people to be homosexual? I mean it isn't even a choice, it's a genetic mutation. So that's like God hating cripples even though people are born crippled. It's pretty sick when you think about it.

You always have the choice not to be homosexual, I mean that you don't have to have more-than-friends relations with guys (at least humans do). I have to read the Bible more, I don't read it nearly enough. But, from what I have read, I can tell you that in there it says that just about everything that's going on right now will happen, in a more general context. It all goes back to Adam and Eve and when they let sin into the world. As soon as that happened we all kind of got screwed. God said that he was going to destroy this world, and when that was coming near things were to get very bad... But no person on this Earth will ever be able to talk about why bad things happen....
Anyways, back on topic.... He doesn't make people homosexual, that's the devil...I think...
I'll get my pastor on this... Hopefully he'll be able to make more sense and provide much better arguments than me, because I know mine probably sound pitiful. :o

[Hacky]

Anything that occurs in nature is.... natural by definition. Genetic Mutation or anything, if it happened in nature, it's natural.

And I still hate the arguement
"They can always choose not to be gay"

Moronic. Can you honestly say that if you thought hard enough you could be gay? No. You couldn't. You find it sickening. As do I. And as do all straight males.
So why would they? What's different that they have this magic ability to choose to be gay? You think they just enjoy being insulted, prejudiced against, and hated? They wake up one day and think
"I think it'd be great to have a majority of the country HATE me, and even run risk of being beaten to death!"


A big arguement is that they can't have children, and so it's wrong.

Responce? You're exactly right, they can't have children, that's the point.

Homosexuality rises in times of overpopulation.

What's happening to the world right now? A MASSIVE overpopulation. Worse than ever before. I believe that homosexuality is the solution to our growing problem.

If hetrosexuals continue to reproduce at this rate, within 100 years there won't be enough land for all of us to live on, much less food to provide for them all (Shit, there's not even enough in the current situation).

Whereas, homosexuals can adopt children, thus lowering problem areas of adoption agencies of children being ignored, thus a big solution to abortion, thus give that unwanted child a loving home, thus building a sense of equality amounst homosexuals and hetrosexuals, thus creating a future of increased equality, which is what your Lord, Jesus Christ, preached about, was it not?

I don't recall Jesus ever hating gays. I recall the teachings of Jesus saying to love everybody, and much equality, no matter their sin.

[Inactive Cargo]

I don't recall Jesus ever hating gays. I recall the teachings of Jesus saying to love everybody, and much equality, no matter their sin.I do recall the Bible saying God created Adam and Eve, but empirical evidence shows that millions of years of genetic precedence gave us homo sapiens. I guess we'll just have to live knowing the Bible's wrong...

[The muffin man]

Natural meaning it wasn't a mutation or anything....



You always have the choice not to be homosexual, I mean that you don't have to have more-than-friends relations with guys (at least humans do). I have to read the Bible more, I don't read it nearly enough. But, from what I have read, I can tell you that in there it says that just about everything that's going on right now will happen, in a more general context. It all goes back to Adam and Eve and when they let sin into the world. As soon as that happened we all kind of got screwed. God said that he was going to destroy this world, and when that was coming near things were to get very bad... But no person on this Earth will ever be able to talk about why bad things happen....
Anyways, back on topic.... He doesn't make people homosexual, that's the devil...I think...
I'll get my pastor on this... Hopefully he'll be able to make more sense and provide much better arguments than me, because I know mine probably sound pitiful. :o

...

If you have a choice, but the devil makes you be gay, isn't that contradictory?

zing.

[Inactive Cargo]

Here comes the +rep train...

[Slevin57]

Did any of you choose to be straight? Then "why on god's green earth" would you think someone would choose to be gay? It just is.

I'm gay and I have never been around gay people prior to. My family are the most homophobic people you will ever meet. If it doesn't involve beer, bait or ammo it's not a topic for discussion in my family.

I'm not a population control tool either, there will be 10 billion people on this earth by the year 2020. Homosexuals don't make up enough of the population to even effect the population of a City.

Please do not give me the bible says homosexuality is wrong. The bible also says you shouldn't cut your hair, or EVER under any circumstance get divorced. It also says interest should not be charged in loans, EVER.

Now none of those are the 7 deadly sins, they are all carry the same punishment. So when you go get your hair cut next time, remember you might as well be bear backing on your best friend bill from Sunday school.

[Inactive Cargo]

The "nobody would choose to be gay" argument owns Christianity every time.

[Napalm]

Did any of you choose to be straight? Then "why on god's green earth" would you think someone would choose to be gay? It just is.

I'm gay and I have never been around gay people prior to. My family are the most homophobic people you will ever meet. If it doesn't involve beer, bait or ammo it's not a topic for discussion in my family.

I'm not a population control tool either, there will be 10 billion people on this earth by the year 2020. Homosexuals don't make up enough of the population to even effect the population of a City.

Please do not give me the bible says homosexuality is wrong. The bible also says you shouldn't cut your hair, or EVER under any circumstance get divorced. It also says interest should not be charged in loans, EVER.

Now none of those are the 7 deadly sins, they are all carry the same punishment. So when you go get your hair cut next time, remember you might as well be bear backing on your best friend bill from Sunday school.


Wait...You're gay?

[Microphotometrically]

it seems that way.

maybe bi?

[Slevin57]

Wait...You're gay?

You cyber with men, your gay too.

Technically I'm Bi, because I have a girlfriend and she's A+.

It's easier and more straightforward to say Gay, because you can't be Bi without being gay!

[Kinetix]

Well anyways...
As a member of the very real Christian religion (non-denominational), I'd like to say that I don't think gay marriage/sex/whatever else fits there is OK. Relations were meant to be between a man and a woman. It's in all of nature too, males reproduce with females, not other males. Males can't reproduce for a reason (except for the male gulf pipefish found in this link: http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/061205_male_pregnancy.html).

I'd say great argument but since you mentioned christianity your arguement is totally void. It's unfortunate the people who are against gay rights can only fall back on christianity and not solid facts...QQ

[Inactive Cargo]

Technically I'm Bi, because I have a girlfriend and she's A+. Pix or you're gay.

[Slevin57]

Pix or you're gay.

nah I'm not teh l00ser, I'm not posting pictures of my girlfriend for you guys to fap on.

[Shins]

He already has. Go find them.

[System_Zero]

The only argument anyone has against gay marriage is because it goes against [insert religion here] or because it violates [insert religions moral here].

But the truth of the mater is the state regulates marriage, not the church. You can get married in a church and all the fancy ceremony but you're not officially married until you go down to City Hall and pay the $50 for the marriage certificate.

[Napalm]

You cyber with men, your gay too.

Technically I'm Bi, because I have a girlfriend and she's A+.

It's easier and more straightforward to say Gay, because you can't be Bi without being gay!

I might've cybered with one with realizing it, but I don't go around having my ass stuffed full of cock.
So since you're gay ("bi") and all, does your girlfriend ever put on a strap-on and penetrate you?

[Shins]

but I don't go around having my ass stuffed full of cock.
So you use cucumbers too, then?

[Napalm]

Must everyone know? D:

[Inactive Cargo]

So you use cucumbers too, then?Shins knows all the tricks.

[mwknowles92]

You're not getting what I said. I'm sure that they are born with their preferences and I doubt that they can change them. What I'm saying, is that they don't have to act on them. I still have to ask my pastor, I should have something by Sunday.

And we don't have evidence that we descended from another species. We have evidence there are species like us, but no hard evidence saying we came from them, such as DNA evidence.

[Hacky]

Oh, and the fact we share all but... what... one Chromosome with most apes isn't DNA evidence? (I'm not sure about the number on that, it's been over a year since Biology, but I remember learning about that)

[Inactive Cargo]

And we don't have evidence that we descended from another species. We have evidence there are species like us, but no hard evidence saying we came from them, such as DNA evidence.Maybe because the species is extinct because we supersceded them, no? We can see progression from cave men to homo sapien from archeological evidence, and genome sequencing shows we are closely related to monkeys (ie a common ancestor).

Also, we can see species branching between Neaderthal and Cro-Magnon man. They're two seperate species, derived from a common ancestor. Cro-Magnon man drove the Neaderthals to extinction (despite their human-esque form, they were a seperate species). There was commonality genetically, however, archeological evidence supports cross breeding. Archeologic evidence also supports cross-breeding between Neanderthals and monkey's (holy shit - a common ancestor!).

And we don't need to look at humans exclusively, we can see progression in other species from archeological evidence.

[mwknowles92]

Nowhere in there did you tell me that we came from anything else...
I'm not saying evolution isn't possible, because it is, just not the branch that you're talking about. I think evolution such as natural selection and things like that are very possible.

And maybe we have evolved in some way or another in the sense you speak of. Even that could flow with what the Bible says. Maybe the disaster that wiped out a whole bunch of species had to do with Noah and his ark. Again, I'll try to get somebody's point of view who is much more educated in this than I by Sunday.

[Inactive Cargo]

Nowhere in there did you tell me that we came from anything else...
I'm not saying evolution isn't possible, because it is, just not the branch that you're talking about. I think evolution such as natural selection and things like that are very possible.I told you we had a common ancestor with apes. How is that not coming from anything else? And I just handed your branching ass to you, Cro-Magnon man cross bred with Neanderthal man, and Neaderthal man cross bred with monkeys. To cross breed successfully you need genetic compatibility - a common ancestor. A common ancestor implies branching.


And maybe we have evolved in some way or another in the sense you speak of. Even that could flow with what the Bible says.No it couldn't, the Bible is very clear that God directly formed Adam. If you're going to chuck a hissy fit and say I should interpret it more metaphorically blah blah then you might want to explain to me how you derive evolution metaphorically from God creating Eve from Adam's rib.
Maybe the disaster that wiped out a whole bunch of species had to do with Noah and his ark.You mean Utnapishtim and his ark, right? You do know that the Bible plagarises "The Story of the Flood" from Mesopotamian mythology (which is AT LEAST a good 700 years before the Old Testament was even written). Didn't they teach you that in Sunday School?

http://www.aina.org/books/eog/eog.htm#c12

Here's a sample chapter:


'For six days and six nights the winds blew, torrent and tempest and flood overwhelmed the world, tempest and flood raged together like warring hosts. When the seventh day dawned the storm from the south subsided, the sea grew calm, the, flood was stilled; I looked at the face of the world and there was silence, all mankind was turned to clay. The surface of the sea stretched as flat as a roof-top; I opened a hatch and the light fell on my face. Then I bowed low, I sat down and I wept, the tears streamed down my face, for on every side was the waste of water. I looked for land in vain, but fourteen leagues distant there appeared a mountain, and there the boat grounded; on the mountain of Nisir the boat held fast, she held fast and did not budge. One day she held, and -a second day on the mountain of Nisir she held fast and did not budge. A third day, and a fourth day she held fast on the mountain and did not budge; a fifth day and a sixth day she held fast on the mountain. When the seventh day dawned I loosed a dove and let her go. She flew away, but finding no resting-place she returned. Then I loosed a swallow, and she flew away but finding no resting-place she returned. I loosed a raven, she saw that the waters had retreated, she ate, she flew around, she cawed, and she did not come back. Then I threw everything open to the four winds, I made a sacrifice and poured out a libation on the mountain top. Seven and again seven cauldrons I set up on their stands, I heaped up wood and cane and cedar and myrtle. When the gods smelled the sweet savour, they gathered like flies over the sacrifice. Then, at last, Ishtar also came, she lifted her necklace with the jewels of heaven that once Anu had made to please her. "O you gods here present, by the lapis lazuli round my neck I shall remember these days as I remember the jewels of my throat; these last days I shall not forget. Let all the gods gather round the sacrifice, except Enlil. He shall not approach this offering, for without reflection he brought the flood; he consigned my people to destruction."

[Badeballen]

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a Inactive bashing religion approaches one."

I do agree with you the Christianity is a silly notion, but this is a discussion about Gay rights, not wherever people evolved from apes or not.

[mwknowles92]

Where did you get that all of those species cross-bred? So far the only thing I've heard of is that we are similar. Again, there is no evidence of pretty much everything you said right there. All there is is speculation. We are totally different from monkeys. Our brain develops much differently than theirs. Their spinal cords come out the back of their heads. Their pelvis is not cupped. They are not bipedal. They have thumbs on their toes. Etc, etc.. The list goes on. Our DNA is different from all of those species you named, in such a way that it is impossible for us to have descended from them or from the same thing as them.
And you took what I said about branches wrong. By branches, I meant the different branches of evolution. Not all evolution deals with how we became man.

[quote]No it couldn't, the Bible is very clear that God directly formed Adam. If you're going to chuck a hissy fit and say I should interpret it more metaphorically blah blah then you might want to explain to me how you derive evolution metaphorically from God creating Eve from Adam's rib.
I can't argue much with you here, though I don't totally agree with you. Please note that I said 'maybe' where one might infer that I was speculating.


You mean Utnapishtim and his ark, right? You do know that the Bible plagarises "The Story of the Flood" from Mesopotamian mythology (which is AT LEAST a good 700 years before the Old Testament was even written). Didn't they teach you that in Sunday School?
I suppose they used radioactive-dating on this? Possibly uranium or whatever it's called (I'm 90% sure it's uranium....). You do realize that there were Christians long before the Bible was thought about right? There were prophecies and all of those other things. How do we know this person you speak of was not simply recounting the long passed down story of Noah? We don't.

[Hacky]

There weren't Christian's before Christ... and Christ came after the Bible, so therfore: No, there were no Christians before the Bible was thought about.

In addition: We share over 80% (I think it's actually like 95, but like I said, been a long time since Biology) of our DNA with apes. We share about 10% with pigs (Which is the animal credited for having the closest circulatory structure to us).

[Inactive Cargo]

Where did you get that all of those species cross-bred? So far the only thing I've heard of is that we are similar. Again, there is no evidence of pretty much everything you said right there. All there is is speculation.

...Our DNA is different from all of those species you named, in such a way that it is impossible for us to have descended from them or from the same thing as them.http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/060517_hybrid_ancestors.html
http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2006/11/neanderthal_dna.php

And yes, it's only speculation because we can't go back in time and physically see what they did. That's why Christians are like "If evolution would be so right it would be a theorem". No you dumbasses, it's not going beyond a theory. You know some other theories that suck major balls? Gravity.

I don't know where you're pulling the DNA stuff from, because it's wrong. We have a common ancestor, and our DNA shows it.

I suppose they used radioactive-dating on this? Possibly uranium or whatever it's called (I'm 90% sure it's uranium....). You do realize that there were Christians long before the Bible was thought about right? There were prophecies and all of those other things. How do we know this person you speak of was not simply recounting the long passed down story of Noah? We don't.Because "the long passed down story of Noah" originated from the Old Testament, which was written in 1400-1500BC. The Epic of Gilgamesh is a Mesapotamian Myth written anywhere between 2700BC to 2000BC. These dates vary because they're derived from different ancient historians, who wrote down the dates for us.

And I think if you track down where the prophets came from you'll find they came after significant milestones in Mesopotamia or Egypt.

[Evonus]

You're not getting what I said. I'm sure that they are born with their preferences and I doubt that they can change them. What I'm saying, is that they don't have to act on them. I still have to ask my pastor, I should have something by Sunday.

And we don't have evidence that we descended from another species. We have evidence there are species like us, but no hard evidence saying we came from them, such as DNA evidence.

The entire purpose of living is to reproduce, and to pass on one's genes. In homosexuals, although they can not reproduce, their desire to engage in sexual relations is just as high. So you're asking someone to deny what they were born to do?

You know, I'll even go along with what you said here if you weren't being so hypocritical. You try going your entire life without ever having sex, before you ask someone else to do it. Then we'll talk.

[Inactive Cargo]

The entire purpose of living is to reproduce, and to pass on one's genes. In homosexuals, although they can not reproduce, their desire to engage in sexual relations is just as high. So you're asking someone to deny what they were born to do?WRONG! The entire purpose of living is to love Jesus Christ!


You know, I'll even go along with what you said here if you weren't being so hypocritical. You try going your entire life without ever having sex, before you ask someone else to do it. Then we'll talk.WRONG! Satan makes you think about having sex. Sex is bad. Our sex drive can not be (along with every other human desire) conveniently explained as a desirable trait that was developed upon through evolution.

[Evonus]

WRONG! The entire purpose of living is to love Jesus Christ!

But then why did the people, that came before Jesus, live? :(


WRONG! Satan makes you think about having sex. Sex is bad. Our sex drive can not be (along with every other human desire) conveniently explained as a desirable trait that was developed upon through evolution.

Phew, almost forgot. It's a good thing that good Christians only have sex in the missionary position for the soul purpose of reproduction, otherwise I'd have to doubt the church, and we know where we go when we do that.

[Shins]

Again, I'll try to get somebody's point of view who is much more educated in this than I by Sunday.

I've said this to you before, but maybe it'll get through this time: it doesn't fucking matter what your pastor thinks. It matters what you think. If you live your life according to what this guys tells you to think, and you don't even really understand his message, but just go along because it sounds right to you on the surface, I feel very, very sorry for you.

[Napalm]

Oh god, I can't even +rep you but I want to.

[Slevin57]

I might've cybered with one with realizing it, but I don't go around having my ass stuffed full of cock.
So since you're gay ("bi") and all, does your girlfriend ever put on a strap-on and penetrate you?

Are you that curious? :P

[Napalm]

Yes, don't dodge the question.

[Hacky]

There is no such thing as a bisexual male.

It a study done on 100 males, 34 being straight, 33 being gay, and 33 being bi, all of the bisexual males showed a preference when shown sexual images of men and women to either men or women. They're either gay and hiding it, or straight and trying impress women/seem more accepting.

(I'm not 100% positive on those numbers, but I know that the study came to the conclusion that every male who called himself "bisexual" had a preference, despite what he claimed, I'd try to find the study.... but I'm lazy.)

[mwknowles92]

There weren't Christian's before Christ... and Christ came after the Bible, so therfore: No, there were no Christians before the Bible was thought about.
What I meant was that there were still people who believed in the same God, and the Messiah and all of those other things that go along with it. They just didn't have the title of Christians... I want to say Jewish......


You try going your entire life without ever having sex, before you ask someone else to do it. Then we'll talk.
The words monk and priest come to mind...


I've said this to you before, but maybe it'll get through this time: it doesn't flipping matter what your pastor thinks. It matters what you think. If you live your life according to what this guys tells you to think, and you don't even really understand his message, but just go along because it sounds right to you on the surface, I feel very, very sorry for you.
I'm telling you what I think, I'm just not as knowledgeable as he is. Why do you think we have teachers? And who said I didn't understand what he says? I understand it, I just haven't been learning long enough. The bible has many lessons. But it's nice to know you care about me so much.


http://www.livescience.com/animalwor...ancestors.html
http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives...erthal_dna.php
http://www.livescience.com/othernews/060508_human_evolution.html
http://www.livescience.com/history/050310_neanderthal_reconstruction.html

[Slevin57]

There is no such thing as a bisexual male.

It a study done on 100 males, 34 being straight, 33 being gay, and 33 being bi, all of the bisexual males showed a preference when shown sexual images of men and women to either men or women. They're either gay and hiding it, or straight and trying impress women/seem more accepting.

(I'm not 100% positive on those numbers, but I know that the study came to the conclusion that every male who called himself "bisexual" had a preference, despite what he claimed, I'd try to find the study.... but I'm lazy.)

*WAVES*

I'll fuck guys or girls. I'm bi, nuff said. There has NOT been enough research to conclude either way, all the studies done so far are just to get press.

"Orange Juice may cause cancer tonight at 6"

"Peas may cause eye afflictions!"

"Being bisexual may mean your actually just gay"


IT MAY, but it MAY not. :salute:

[Evonus]

The words monk and priest come to mind...

A) Not all those who are condemning gays are monks or priests, and most of them aren't even catholic.

B) Most members of the catholic church including monks are priests were the biggest womanizers going.

[System_Zero]

Fun facts for the day!

Our DNA has 98% computability with humans. What most anti-evolutionist perceive is that monkey -> ape -> human which is not the case. At one point in time we shared a common ancestor animal. Through the process of natural selection through adaptation.

The planet is always changing, and thus in order for life to live on it must adapt to those changes or become extinct. Many species do become extinct but may continue to pass on their genes to form new species.

Homosexuality is a type of biological population limiter for when ever there's a dense population of a spices that has a low mortality rate. And is seen with other animals beside humans.


A) Not all those who are condemning gays are monks or priests, and most of them aren't even catholic.

B) Most members of the catholic church including monks are priests were the biggest womanizers going.
Also only Catholic clergy practice abstinence, while all protestant ministers do marry but condemn any same sex intercourse or sex before marriage.

[Steve]

Watching two men make out is hot.
Watching two women make out is hotter.
Leave gay people alone, it's their choice.

[sacrifice]

Well I think that homosexuality is a choice, I don't have a problem with it

to an extent I mean... :bad:

[Inactive Cargo]

Well I think that homosexuality is a choice, I don't have a problem with itTHAT IS CORRECT, HOWEVER THEY COULD HAVE RESISTED SATAN'S TEMPTATIONS AND ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST AS OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR.

EVOLUTION IS WRONG.
THE EARTH IS 14,000 YEARS OLD.
FOR SOME REASON I AM RIGHT.

[act1]

Hello, so, i have got an problem with it. Whith gay rights. But listen, gays have got more than 1 right. I have got problem with this rights, some of gays WANT TO HAVE CHILD, and i think this right is HOOOrrible, it must be very bad for that child, two fathers ? etc. I have got problem only with this, they can married in my opinion, but it is not so good i think. Married is for Woman and Man, not for Man + Man . agrh ... but OK. What do you think ? sorry for my english :rolleyes:

[Slevin57]

Act1. I don't really see any um, fact to back that up. Or even a defense of opinion..

"Gays have got more than 1 right" -- Even if straight people have one more right than gay people it's not fair.

"Some gays want to have a child...would be horrible" -- How so? Children are non-discriminant. I didn't even know what gay was until I was 10 years old. We allow single fathers to raise children, why not two men. If you want to take it to a psychological level even in gay relationships you will find that two men will take on roles similar to women and men in a straight relationship.

Marriage -- We'll that's just a straight opinion and it goes back to the rights thing at the beginning of your post.

[Icecream]

Just respect the human rights.
I think everybody is free in faith, and also in sexual gender.
If people feel comfortable being gay, then what's the problem?
For as far I know, gay people aren't any different then regular people...
They still have arms, legs, eyes, brains end feelings.

[XoReD]

Doesn't matter if there gay or not as long as there happy with thier life.

[Whower]

im gay!

[sacrifice]

Well my mom divorced me dad, because of this, but over the years I had to get used to it. But i also lived with my dad, but good point I didnt want to live with mom... but it doesnt change the fact that i stilll love my mom

[DiStUrBeD]

seconded all except the didn't want to part

and inactive cargo that is only if you believe in christ or satan in the first place

[Orbixx]

Gay RIGHTS?!

[Inactive Cargo]

and inactive cargo that is only if you believe in christ or satan in the first placeDoesn't everybody believe in my obnoxiously shit religion? I mean God is real, right? The Bible says so. QED.

[DiStUrBeD]

ah but is the bible true?

[Inactive Cargo]

ah but is the bible true?The Bible says it is true, therefore the Bible is true. QED.

[Orbixx]

ah but is the bible true?

*sigh* here we go again.

[DiStUrBeD]

yeah that made no sence

remember the romans according to history changed teh bible to be whatever they wanted it to be and they for all we know changed it so much that no part is to be believed.

[Evonus]

The Bible says it is true, therefore the Bible is true. QED.

Exactly no matter how advanced science gets it can't defeat circular logic. Atheists might as well just give up now.

[PseudoPhilosopher]

There have been alot of research and a high percentage of homosexual people suffered some sort of trauma earlyer in life, be it physical abuse, sexual abuse, parents divorcing when the child is still young.

Therefore I would not trust gay marriage, gay couples or individuals adopting.

Also I haven't researched it recently (within the last year) but last I checked, even with modern preventatives and medacine, gays are a good percentage of the population that has the highest amount of disease and/or physical/mental problems.

(and I apaulagize if I do offend anyone)

[Orbixx]

Exactly no matter how advanced science gets it can't defeat circular logic. Atheists might as well just give up now.

Fact beats all. Unfortunately, we don't have that to disprove anything yet. Damn it.

[DiStUrBeD]

fine then let me refrase what i said the romans say it was true but then they also destroyed themselves and committed many whoredoms against God.
so who do u trust?

[Inactive Cargo]

fine then let me refrase what i said the romans say it was true but then they also destroyed themselves and committed many whoredoms against God.
so who do u trust?JESUS CHRIST OF COURSE.

THE BIBLE SAYS WE SHOULD TRUST HIM, THEREFORE WE SHOULD TRUST HIM.

QED.

[DiStUrBeD]

but the romans rewrote that and we can't trust them

[Inactive Cargo]

but the romans rewrote that and we can't trust themCAN'T YOU SEE? THE BIBLE CLEARLY SAYS IT IS THE WORD OF GOD, THEREFORE THE BIBLE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN REWRITTEN.

QED.

[Shins]

There have been alot of research and a high percentage of homosexual people suffered some sort of trauma earlyer in life, be it physical abuse, sexual abuse, parents divorcing when the child is still young.

Therefore I would not trust gay marriage, gay couples or individuals adopting.

Link me to these statistics. What exactly qualifies as a high percentage? And hey, I suffered emotional abuse in my life. Am I too unfit and untrustworthy by your standards to be a parent?

Wake-up call for you: very few people have this picturesque and perfect upbringing (if such an upbringing could even be agreed upon; it can't... opinion ftw). Most people are damaged. But we deal with it. What you're putting forth would simply perpetuate an abuse victim's problems, since it would continually and consciously remind them of their status.


Also I haven't researched it recently (within the last year) but last I checked, even with modern preventatives and medacine, gays are a good percentage of the population that has the highest amount of disease and/or physical/mental problems.

Are you sure you haven't researched it recently? Are you sure it wasn't never?

[Anikal]

CAN'T YOU SEE? THE BIBLE CLEARLY SAYS IT IS THE WORD OF GOD, THEREFORE THE BIBLE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN REWRITTEN.

QED.

QFT.

[DiStUrBeD]

look it up the romans did whatever they wanted to it when they adopted it as a religion. theology = the study of religion. root theo- as in theory theory is an unprovable statement supported by facts that pretty much have holes in them

and you will not win i used to be mormon. mormon = the strongest religious background with the least conspiracy. that and i am the son of a lesbian so i belive they have rights and should be able to marry adopt or even be president.

[Shins]

INACTIVE CARGO IS AN ATHEIST

[PseudoPhilosopher]

Link me to these statistics. What exactly qualifies as a high percentage? And hey, I suffered emotional abuse in my life. Am I too unfit and untrustworthy by your standards to be a parent?

Wake-up call for you: very few people have this picturesque and perfect upbringing (if such an upbringing could even be agreed upon; it can't... opinion ftw). Most people are damaged. But we deal with it. What you're putting forth would simply perpetuate an abuse victim's problems, since it would continually and consciously remind them of their status.



Are you sure you haven't researched it recently? Are you sure it wasn't never?

true though that no one is perfect. that doesn't mean that anyone who has a troubled past will become homosexual, it is merely a fact about most homosexuals.

as to the "links for my sources of information" I will have to get back to you on that one. but ill get those stats to you if you wish it.

[Slevin57]

There have been alot of research and a high percentage of homosexual people suffered some sort of trauma earlyer in life, be it physical abuse, sexual abuse, parents divorcing when the child is still young.

Therefore I would not trust gay marriage, gay couples or individuals adopting.

People that have been abused in the ways you speak of should seek some kind of counseling. The fact that they may be gay has NO bearing on it.

I'm not saying people are incapable of caring for children if they have been abused, but it is best to play it safe for the sake of the child. Abuse is not something to attribute to the likelihood of being gay.

Not sure how the bible got into the topic about Gay Rights... Christian Theory: "The King James version is the only version not altered by Satan"--Not really much grounding their.

The bible was crafted as a political tool. It was edited for the political gain many times throughout history. The most obvious editing is done in the time of Jeus' life. There is no mention of his "growing up" and a manuscript has been found detailing the life of Jesus growing up which is very interesting and I think if it was in the bible it would greatly change Christianity.

Various other books were also dropped, for a while the Catholic Church included them in study, they are referred to as the Apocrypha. After increasing external pressure from Protestant groups saying the Apocrypha contained satanic messages because it didn't shed a 150% positive light on Jesus and Mary the Church dropped them from the Catechism. (Catechism = How to be Good Catholic Book)

[Evonus]

Fact beats all. Unfortunately, we don't have that to disprove anything yet. Damn it.

psst. I was being facetious. I'm an atheist.

[Evonus]

look it up the romans did whatever they wanted to it when they adopted it as a religion. theology = the study of religion. root theo- as in theory theory is an unprovable statement supported by facts that pretty much have holes in them

and you will not win i used to be mormon. mormon = the strongest religious background with the least conspiracy. that and i am the son of a lesbian so i belive they have rights and should be able to marry adopt or even be president.

The book of Mormon was written by a crazy guy in the 1800's. How does that have the strongest religious background.

[Shins]

true though that no one is perfect. that doesn't mean that anyone who has a troubled past will become homosexual, it is merely a fact about most homosexuals.

Even if you can supply a valid case-study, it's not a fact. New research is constantly and consistently being conducted, and nine times out of ten, no two studies will yield the same results. It's an iffy, iffy subject. Take whatever you read with a grain of salt.

I'm still not clear on what your actual problem with homosexuality is. If you're saying that no one is perfect, you mean it's okay for some people that have been abused (which was your initial reasoning behind homosexuals not being allowed to raise children; because all of them are victims of abuse), then why is it not okay for others? It would seem you're trying to sidestep a problem you have with the actual act of being a homosexual more than the "underlying factors that caused their sexual preference.


as to the "links for my sources of information" I will have to get back to you on that one. but ill get those stats to you if you wish it.

I would like that very much, thanks.


The book of Mormon was written by a crazy guy in the 1800's. How does that have the strongest religious background.

Because the Mormons actually believe it? BA-DUM TSHH

[mingus]

An interesting fact about the Bible: In the old testament there is refrence to gay lovers, the story being David and Jonathan. For those who are Christian out there, you can research this more and tell me why I'm wrong. Really It just depends on who you talk to/ how you interpret it yourself.

[DiStUrBeD]

the guy who wrote the book of mormon had a 3rd grade education therefore could not have been able to write it without some influence from a higher power and what i meant by that is that the organization and the actions of the members is much mre like christs times

[Hacky]

fine then let me refrase what i said the romans say it was true but then they also destroyed themselves and committed many whoredoms against God.
so who do u trust?

I think this is fucking HILIRIOUS.

The level of obserdity in CHristians has become so fucking acceptable that IC, a devout Atheist, can INSULT them, writing in all caps, making the most SARCASTIC comments I've ever seen, and this Disturbed fellow can't tell the difference.

I commend you sir, I commend you.

[Shins]

the guy who wrote the book of mormon had a 3rd grade education therefore could not have been able to write it without some influence from a higher power and what i meant by that is that the organization and the actions of the members is much mre like christs times

English, motherfucker. Do you speak it?

[Slevin57]

An interesting fact about the Bible: In the old testament there is refrence to gay lovers, the story being David and Jonathan. For those who are Christian out there, you can research this more and tell me why I'm wrong. Really It just depends on who you talk to/ how you interpret it yourself.

That's a very contested story.

"And it came to pass, when he [David] had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul." (1 Sam. 18:1 (http://php.ug.cs.usyd.edu.au/%7Ejnot4610/bibref.php?book=1%20Sam.&verse=18:1&src=)). That same day, "Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love) him as his own soul"

I don't see that as a romantic/sexual relationship. It's more of a deep affection, unity of soul equates to a friend more then a "boyfriend" in my eyes.

If we say this is homoerotic, we have to say that the story of Soddom and Gammora is equally so.

[ftw_59]

The book of Mormon was written by a crazy guy in the 1800's. How does that have the strongest religious background.
BWAHHAHAH I was gonna say the same thing. Mormons make me smile.

[Inactive Cargo]

If we say this is homoerotic, we have to say that the story of Soddom and Gammora is equally so.Well the Bible is pretty gay...

[Orbixx]

so who do u trust?

No-one. I trust my judgement on what people say and what I hear, but I don't take anything for what it appears.

[DiStUrBeD]

no he does not make people homosexual but in heaven before the fall of satan there was a verbal war in which satan and 1/3 of the hosts of heaven had a plan to pretty much make satan our omnipotent dictator whereas the other 2/3 of the hosts of heaven followed Christ and the pan of salvation. the people tht where on the front lines, so to speak, of the 2/3 where God's most faithfull. seeing as we were placed here on earth to be tested in our faith God gave us all trials that we would need to overcome. to his most faithfull he gave greater trials and that is where homosexuals come in. God makes it possible and satan exploits our weaknesses making homosexuality, murder, and all else possible.

that is what i have been taught all my life and honestly i don't believe a word of it because i no longer believe in God. but i figured it would help this little debate here.

soddam an gamora was a gay thing. the men had lustfull feelings for gods beautiful male angels.!?

and yes i do speak english why?
other than that i support homosexuals in their decissions to be as they are my mother is one of them. she left my dad and me but yet i respect her for following her heart and being happy the way she wants to live. and goy moms rock especially once u move in with them.

[Slevin57]

That is someone's interpretation. Unfortunately the bible is crafted figuratively and you can apply the literal meaning to many things.

I could say god created daisies to test the resolve of man after Satan's fall from heaven and you would be hard pressed to prove me wrong.

[DiStUrBeD]

but like i said i no longer believe in god

[Napalm]

gays like disturbed don't need rights!!

[Lemmer]

Isn't the only reason this ain't passing right away because of religous reasons?
So what happened to the seperation of church and state, considering that marriage is now a legal element?

[Evonus]

Isn't the only reason this ain't passing right away because of religous reasons?
So what happened to the seperation of church and state, considering that marriage is now a legal element?

Eisenhower happened to separation of Church and State.

[vesper]

humans are humans and have rights
if a guy can put it in mah pooper (not gonna happen but he has the "right" if i let him) then why can't man put pp in another man's pooper :(
and c'mon..who doesn't like lesbians? srsly...

i don't believe a word of the bible so, maybe that is why i feel this way, yes?

[Napalm]

Can I put it in your pooper?

[vesper]

Can I put it in your pooper?

no! i have a vageen for a reason
i'm sure loli will let you though

[DiStUrBeD]

sorry i am not gay but thanks for playing.

[Shins]

Why is he upgraded? Why do we have a Shark Pool if he got upgraded?

WHAT IS GOING ON

[Inactive Cargo]

WHO THE FUCK?

[Anikal]

The world is coming to an end D:


$5 says Spanky Ham is a Christian.

Christians fuck up society so badly.

No, he's not, as a matter of fact.

[daotodtnod]

$5 says Spanky Ham is a Christian.

Christians fuck up society so badly.

I'd agree. Christians to me seem so fucking snotty. If you don't believe in god they either exile you or try to get you to believe in the "lord."

If anyone has seen that 30 days episode (form the creator of super-size me) with the Christians and the atheists... you'll see what i mean.

[Slevin57]

Not all Christians are like that.

[System_Zero]

Not all, but sadly the vast majority don't make everyone else look good either.

[Napalm]

I'd agree. Christians to me seem so fucking snotty. If you don't believe in god they either exile you or try to get you to believe in the "lord."

If anyone has seen that 30 days episode (form the creator of super-size me) with the Christians and the atheists... you'll see what i mean.
That's cos it's biased to show the "bad side" or whatever, to christianity.
I can do the same about anything and make it seem bad.

[Slevin57]

Not all, but sadly the vast majority don't make everyone else look good either.

Perhaps it is more that the moderate Christians are far less noticeable than the extreme Christians that give the entire religion a bad name. Indeed these unnoticed few don't let Christianity consume their lives and are able to function perfectly fine without imposing divine will on you fucking atheists.

[genesis[OFT]]

I'd agree. Christians to me seem so fucking snotty. If you don't believe in god they either exile you or try to get you to believe in the "lord."

And yet don't Atheists do a similar type of thing? The second they find out that you're Christian\Hindu\Jewish\Islamic, they firstly go about nailing your religion into a thick wall while claiming that their theories, laws and scientific facts are the World's supreme overlord. Well - it works both ways, chaps.

Again, as has been said, it's that small minority of belivers from said religions (and Atheism\Agnosticsm) that do this. Admittedly, it's obviously a royale bitch that one of the 'pitfalls' of Christianity is that one of the ideas is to lead people to Christ - that's what you're saying here. Yes, it's true. But in my defense, I find that me mentioning 'small minority' above is a fairly generous description in relation to Atheists, especially on 1337.com.

[Tangent]

Well, it's kind of hard to put yourself in the shoes of people with opposite sexual preferences, but that's just how gay people are. Gay. There shouldn't be a problem with it, that's why they're here.

[Inactive Cargo]

;349185']And yet don't Atheists do a similar type of thing? The second they find out that you're Christian\Hindu\Jewish\Islamic, they firstly go about nailing your religion into a thick wall while claiming that their theories, laws and scientific facts are the World's supreme overlord. Well - it works both ways, chaps.I like scientific facts more than I like dogma.

[Destagow]

GAIZ ARE SATEN IN DISGUIEZ!!!!111!!

[Shins]

I like scientific facts more than I like dogma.

What's your actual success rate on converting believers, anyway?

edit: after reading the posts following this one, I guess I should clarify that the above is not meant as a snarky comment; it's an honest question.

[Destagow]

Hes constant flames and scientific post slightly helped me when I did

[genesis[OFT]]

What's your actual success rate on converting believers, anyway?
@EDIT: Due to a change in heart of above posts, I'll reconcider what I said. From what I'm aware of, even the smarter Christians Todd talks to, he doesn't change nothing.

[Slevin57]

What is anyone's rate on convincing somone to change their views on something they adamantly believe?

You certainly can't do it in one sitting. I don't care how good of a orator you are.

This is why I do not try to "convert" people to my beliefs. All you can do is present what you believe and perhaps it will factor in a future decision that person makes.

I don't purposely try to get people to convert to my views, especially pertaining to religion. But, I don't stifle my views to make them feel better.

I met somone who for all intents and purposes is a pretty cool guy. He just happens to believe God litterally created the bible in 7 days and that the dark ages really did yield positive religous things. I don't agree with him, but I didn't get involved in a engraged debate with him over it.

In Short: People believe what they want. Don't try to change that. The only way people change is by their own choice.

[Hacky]

;349416']@EDIT: Due to a change in heart of above posts, I'll reconcider what I said. From what I'm aware of, even the smarter Christians Todd talks to, he doesn't change nothing.

He obviously doesn't change their English learnin'.

PS: Converting people is stupid. Leave them alone.

PPS: Gays are people, and they are gonna be gay whether they're allowed to marry or not. So you think it's fair that when a straight couple is devoted to one another, they get a tax cut but homosexual couples do not?

[Destagow]

I don't believe ic was directly trying to convert people, more like showing flaws for self entertainment.


/edit
@EDIT: Due to a change in heart of above posts, I'll reconcider what I said. From what I'm aware of, even the smarter Christians Todd talks to, he doesn't change nothing.

I use to be a Christian Nazi rambo killer.

[StopMakingSense]

Ive just read this page of the post and its sad how a serious discussion can be turned into something where people are saying they "used to be a Christian Nazi rambo killer" and that "GAIZ ARE SATEN IN DISGUIEZ!!!!111!"

I dont see why gays should not have the same rights as everyone else. They are people. You dont have to like them being gay, but you shouldnt be able to discriminate against them.

[System_Zero]

Sadly the rest of the country doesn't share that view and are too busy swallowing other people's crap to think for themselves.

[mingus]

Does anyone actually think gays shouldn't have rights like anyone else?

[Inactive Cargo]

Does anyone actually think gays shouldn't have rights like anyone else?genesis[OFT]. But he also thinks the world is 15,000 years old and that God is real. I had the heart to tell him otherwise, but he just didn't believe me.

[Shins]

Answer me, gd.

[The Badger's Sister]

O.o
Issues like this make me irrate.
I don't understand how Christians, who supposedly hold such high morals, can be so condescending on a group of people.j
It's a lifestyle choice. Let people live as they please.
Try being open-minded for a change.

Also, the whole issue about no gay marriage in the US is ridiculous.
The only "true" argument people have against this, in my eyes, is that their religious beliefs define marriage as between a man and a woman.
However, this country does not have a set religion, so it would be unconstitutional to pass an amendment banning gay marriage based on religious beliefs since this gd country also lets its people choose their own religion to follow or not.


I have no problem with it. I don't want them to be able to adopt, but I think they should be able to marry and all that, and be treated like everyone else.

and WTF IS THAT ALL ABOUT?
people who think kids are going to grow up gay are full of shit.
think about alcoholism.
some people who grow up with alcoholic parents end up down the same path, whereas others hate it.

and people who think that kids are going to confused and fucked up because their parents are gay are ALSO full of shit.
your parents screw you up no matter what.

[The Prodigy]

One Being "gay" doesent neccserly mean your homo means you just like the oppisot Sex (sorry for my grhamar some keys on this board dont work time to time) (diffrent computer)

in the bible it stats Liking the oppisot sex is a Sin as it was design to be or suppose to be you are satanist as it say in john somewere i think But Some people or bi cause they give up on girls (lol) anyways somtimes people are BI (Bi curios) in the way the oppisot sex or gender like dentist are said to be sucidle lamo so homos are usually wealthya and tired of being played are goldigged

[Slevin57]

What the hell did you just say.

[Shins]

OF COURSE

[Slevin57]

Shins. fuck. donkey.

[genesis[OFT]]

One Being "gay" doesent neccserly mean your homo means you just like the oppisot Sex (sorry for my grhamar some keys on this board dont work time to time) (diffrent computer)

in the bible it stats Liking the oppisot sex is a Sin as it was design to be or suppose to be you are satanist as it say in john somewere i think But Some people or bi cause they give up on girls (lol) anyways somtimes people are BI (Bi curios) in the way the oppisot sex or gender like dentist are said to be sucidle lamo so homos are usually wealthya and tired of being played are goldigged

Ahem.
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5677/756picsense6lr.jpg

[The Badger's Sister]

the prodigy, i don't understand whatever the hell you just tried to write right der.... so....

ACTually, the whole homosexuality thing in the Bible happened in the story of Lot... you know... people were had sex with multiple partners--male and female--as well as fornicating with their family members (a.ka. INCEST). And then God asks them to leave the city because of what's going on in the city--it doesn't necessarily say because of homosexually... people just imply it that that way... it could have been the incest or the multiple partners. it doesn't say specifically that it's just the homo/bisexuality that He disproves of. Lot's family is leaving and told not to look back, but his dumb bitch of a wife looks back and gets turned into a pillar of salt.

GG Mrs. Lot!

[Slevin57]

In Biblical Times.. Homosexuality would have been considered wrong.

In Biblical Times people studied Alchemy. We now know that Alchemy is bullshit.

We now know that homosexuality is not a "sin" nor is is necessarily "wrong". It's just different.

[RufRyder]

I believe it is very wrong to judge people by thier sexuality, as it does not define thier personality etc....i think that homosexuals should have all of the rights straights have EXCEPT being parents...children being too young to make an informed choice in the matter i think pretty much speaks for itself...how would you feel growing up with two fathers?? I know that wouldnt sit right with me. I have always been curious as to wether homosexuality is innate, or brought about by someone's environment?

[The Badger's Sister]

it's both, dumbass.

and what's wrong with having two fathers? you've obviously never met children who DO have gay parents.

EDIT: also, dis is post 300. i wish it was more epic dan dis.

[mollyrulesall]

i know a retard named sam. he has two fathers.

[Shins]

i think that homosexuals should have all of the rights straights have EXCEPT being parents...children being too young to make an informed choice in the matter i think pretty much speaks for itself...how would you feel growing up with two fathers??

You contradicted yourself. If children are too young to be aware of sexuality, then they won't care if they have two mothers or two fathers, just as children raised by single parents don't have an immediate problem with that. You or I would find being raised by two men odd, because we were (I presume) raised by a man and a woman. That's our reality; what we've been exposed to. But for someone who grew up the other way, it's not a big deal.

Who specifically you are raised by does not stop you from seeing the wider world. Going back to children raised by a single parent, are you trying to tell me they don't understand the concept of marriage? Just because you're raised "differently" doesn't mean you lack the ability to see beyond your household.

[Hacky]

I have always been curious as to wether homosexuality is innate, or brought about by someone's environment?

That's the whole issue in the matter.

In reality, it's just like a person's personality. We are born with a genetic undercode, but our experiences definately effect our life.

I also think it's stupid of people to say
"They should be able to do everything, except this"
You just want yourself to seem better than you really are, the ability to say you want to give homosexuals equal rights, with that one exception.

[Inactive Cargo]

In reality, it's just like a person's personality. We are born with a genetic undercode, but our experiences definately effect our life.No you moron, it's Satan and temptation. Satan tempts people to want to fill their mouths with penis, it says so in the Bible.

QED.

[genesis[OFT]]

No you moron, it's Satan and temptation. Satan tempts people to want to fill their mouths with penis, it says so in the Bible.

QED

Opinion of other people LOL. And stop dragging religion in on every fucking thing you post. It's old. Very.

QED.

[The Badger's Sister]

it's ironic, actually.
isn't he an atheist?

[Serenity]

I think that Homosexual people should have the exact same rights as others. They are not diffrent from straight people exept that the turn to their own gender. They can be excellent parents and as good as a man and woman can be. We all know that not only all straight people should have children but does that really stop them from getting them?

A parent should be choosen on how good they would be as a parent and not on their diffrent interests in partners! Sure sometimes it might not be a good thing if a person keeps jumping from one person to another everyday/week basically because that will obviously hurt the child.

I think homosexuals has every right to be how they are and others should actually accept that.

[Evonus]

O.o
and WTF IS THAT ALL ABOUT?
people who think kids are going to grow up gay are full of shit.
think about alcoholism.
some people who grow up with alcoholic parents end up down the same path, whereas others hate it.

and people who think that kids are going to confused and fucked up because their parents are gay are ALSO full of shit.
your parents screw you up no matter what.

You need to learn to read, because you reiterated issues I answered in my next post.


Turn out straight, but I still think it must be stressful for the child to get harassed by their peers everyday for having two same sex parents. I'm sorry if you don't agree, I have no problem with gay people being together, I think it's their choice, but since they can't naturally produce children I don't believe they should have any.

I don't think gays should be able to adopt because of the stress it puts on the child of being harassed by his/her peers.

Learn to read moron, and don't pick and choose parts from a discussion to answer to. Seriously, how do retards like you get let out of the shark pool?

[The Badger's Sister]

I don't think gays should be able to adopt because of the stress it puts on the child of being harassed by his/her peers.

LOL.
this is seriously what you think?

I think kids should not be fat because of the stress it puts on the child of being harassed by his/her peers.


I think goths should die because of the stress it puts on the child of being harassed by his/her peers.


I think band geeks should become preps because of the stress it puts on the child of being harassed by his/her peers.


I think jews should slit wrists because of the stress it puts on the child of being harassed by his/her peers.



your logic phails.

[Avarik]

i bleev in jeezus christe

[The Badger's Sister]

i support gays.
muh boyfriend is gay<3

also...

-rep | Date Posted By Comment | Gay Rights January 22nd, 2007 01:21 PM | Evonus | rofl narrow minded. Fuck you too


ROFL MY WAFFLE.
usually, people are more open-minded when they accept others for who they are.

[System_Zero]

Kids shouldn't be smart because stress it puts on the child of being harassed by his/her peers.

See that straight A student? He's a nerd and must get have his head stuck down a toilet. :(

[Shins]

your logic phails.

I'd take narrow-minded idealism over open-minded cynicism.

[Evonus]

LOL.
this is seriously what you think?

I think kids should not be fat because of the stress it puts on the child of being harassed by his/her peers.


I think goths should die because of the stress it puts on the child of being harassed by his/her peers.


I think band geeks should become preps because of the stress it puts on the child of being harassed by his/her peers.


I think jews should slit wrists because of the stress it puts on the child of being harassed by his/her peers.



your logic phails.

You do realize you listed almost all choices, except for the last one, and to some degree the first one. You do realize the government is trying to cut down on obesity right? You do realize that if someone chooses to be gothic it isn't the same as gay parents adopting some kid where he'll have very little say in the matter. Are you capable of at least semiconscious thought?


i support gays.
ROFL MY WAFFLE.
usually, people are more open-minded when they accept others for who they are.

Oh I accept people for who they are, but at the same time I actually consider different points of reference before I make my decision. Here's a hint, spewing off leftist propaganda doesn't make you open minded. You have to actually consider the alternative too.

Not to mention, your comment is irrelevant, because I support homosexual marriage, and have said I have said since the beginning of this topic, but when someone else's choice to be gay effects a third party (the child in this example) it requires thought from multiple angles, which is obviously something you are clearly incapable of.

[The Badger's Sister]

i listed those because i think they're bullshit ideas.
kids get picked on for one thing or another.
that's life.
it doesn't matter who you're raised by.

the examples are a mockery of how i disagree with your logic.

and i read already that you support gay marriage.
i'm flaming the idea that you don't think they should raise children. they're not incapable.
would you rather be stuck moving from home to home for life, like many of the foster kids that have gone through my aunt's house have, or at least know that you're two gay fathers will love you no matter what?

[Evonus]

i listed those because i think they're bullshit ideas.
kids get picked on for one thing or another.
that's life.
it doesn't matter who you're raised by.

Yes, but that's a big deal. Is it to me? No. But to other kids, especially in their teenage years. Homosexuality is not looked on favorably. These kids will be harassed and outcasts through no fault of their own.

And honestly, for you to be so nonchalant about it, just shows me that you have probably not gone through a time of harassment in your life. I grew up poor in a rich town, and I was an outcast for quite a few years. No one would talk to me or associate with me. I know how that feels, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone else. I know what it's like to be harassed every day because my parents weren't the norm of the community, and I don't want others to go through it, especially because I know they'll probably be received even worse. That's why I feel this way, and saying "all kids get made fun of" isn't going to change my mind.


the examples are a mockery of how i disagree with your logic.

A very poorly conceived mockery.


and i read already that you support gay marriage.
i'm flaming the idea that you don't think they should raise children. they're not incapable.

You can't read. I never said they weren't capable, but I don't want kids growing up and being harassed because of something like that. That's my point.


would you rather be stuck moving from home to home for life, like many of the foster kids that have gone through my aunt's house have, or at least know that you're two gay fathers will love you no matter what?

There is nothing wrong with homosexuals. There is something wrong with the way society views homosexuals, and until that is remedied, I don't think they should be able to adopt. I don't think the extra stress on the children is worth it.

[Hacky]

Yes, but that's a big deal. Is it to me? No. But to other kids, especially in their teenage years. Homosexuality is not looked on favorably. These kids will be harassed and outcasts through no fault of their own.

And honestly, for you to be so nonchalant about it, just shows me that you have probably not gone through a time of harassment in your life. I grew up poor in a rich town, and I was an outcast for quite a few years. No one would talk to me or associate with me. I know how that feels, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone else. I know what it's like to be harassed every day because my parents weren't the norm of the community, and I don't want others to go through it, especially because I know they'll probably be received even worse. That's why I feel this way, and saying "all kids get made fun of" isn't going to change my mind.

You know who else was insulted and harassed in their teen years? Black people, back when segregation was a big issue.


Think about the parallels. We're attempting to recreate that, a world in which students won't be harassed for having two parents, excluding by a few odd assholes. But to create that world, we need to make the first step, those of us that do accept them need to make the change, so that the rest will fall in line.

You're only issue with it is that the kid will be rediculed. I don't see how that's a big enough issue to stop countless homosexual couples from adoptiong a child that needs them.

The choice is either that they get adopted, and harassed, or don't get adopted, and have no idea what a parental figure is at all. A child will grow up much more fucked up the second way.

[Evonus]

You know who else was insulted and harassed in their teen years? Black people, back when segregation was a big issue.


Think about the parallels. We're attempting to recreate that, a world in which students won't be harassed for having two parents, excluding by a few odd assholes. But to create that world, we need to make the first step, those of us that do accept them need to make the change, so that the rest will fall in line.

You're only issue with it is that the kid will be rediculed. I don't see how that's a big enough issue to stop countless homosexual couples from adoptiong a child that needs them.

The choice is either that they get adopted, and harassed, or don't get adopted, and have no idea what a parental figure is at all. A child will grow up much more fucked up the second way.

I haven't lived two lives, so I only know the first. I personally think it would be better if homosexuals were allowed to marry, and generally became more accepted before they could adopt.

I understand what you're saying between your race and sexual orientation parallels and I completely agree, which is why I support gay marriage, but I'm also a moderate, and I have a very systematic way of thinking about things. I like to see things done in steps, to soften the transition, even if I believe it is the correct way to go. I'm not a "revolutionary" time of person, I'd prefer to see things slowly reformed.

[Inactive Cargo]

I would love for Anima to step in here, because (s)he's looking at becoming a child psych major, no?

Anyway, it's not just that the child will be ridiculed for his parents' sexual preference, it's also that as the child's being brought up they need both a male and female role model. What happens if you have a girl being brought up by two men? The same goes for a boy being brought up by two women.

I'm all for gay rights and gay marriage now, but I think we should wait a little bit longer before we consider gay adoption.

[Shins]

Again, you have to apply that to the single parent model too. And that won't fly.

[Evonus]

I would love for Anima to step in here, because (s)he's looking at becoming a child psych major, no?

Anyway, it's not just that the child will be ridiculed for his parents' sexual preference, it's also that as the child's being brought up they need both a male and female role model. What happens if you have a girl being brought up by two men? The same goes for a boy being brought up by two women.

I'm all for gay rights and gay marriage now, but I think we should wait a little bit longer before we consider gay adoption.

I don't mean to shoot you down, but I personally have a problem with this particular argument, due to the fact that boys are raised by widowed mothers, and girls are raised by widowed fathers. The divorce rate in the U.S. is pretty close to 50%. That means The scenarios you mentioned where a child is only raised by a member of the opposite gender is probably pretty close to at least 25%, or even if it's lower it's far from rare.

I do see where you're coming from, and in a perfect world it would be nice to not have to resort to that, but we don't live in a perfect world.

[Inactive Cargo]

Again, you have to apply that to the single parent model too. And that won't fly.Point taken, but in the single-parent model it's 99% from divorce, and the child at least sees an opposite sex parent. In the other cases where the opposite sex parent has died or the child has absolutely no contact with the other parent, I wouldn't be surprised to see that the child grows up mal-adjusted (although I wouldn't say it's impossible for the child to grow up "normally").

[Shins]

Point taken, but in the single-parent model it's 99% from divorce, and the child at least sees an opposite sex parent.

Link(s)?

I echo Evonus: in a perfect world, kids would have these ideal role models. But that's just not the world we live in.

[Inactive Cargo]

Link(s)?Hearsay.

[Hacky]

And so long as you express that, I'll accept your opinion no problem.

Both will work, the systematic process would take longer, but the "revolution" would involve more pain for certain people raised by homosexual parents.

When forced to accept something, we accept it sooner, but those that don't accept it are much more harsh.

I think though if we don't make a huge step, we won't be making any sort of step at all, we'll just keep taking from their rights, slowly.