Brave Kids

[Orbixx]

Has anyone ever seen those shows where kids with illnesses (usually quite bad) appear on TV and get some award for being "brave". Now, this is a little bit of a rant my side here, but I was wondering what you all thought.

Basically, one particular kid was on a Bravery Show and got to meet fuck knows how many celebrities, get an award, say a thank you to the fucking world for being born with an illness. Being born with a fucking illness. You DO NOT need to be brave to be born with an illness, you do not have to be brave to live with an illness, you just DO live with an illness, especially if it's all you've known since you were born, it wouldn't surprise me if that made it easier, there would be no need to adjust.

It just really pisses me off, because I know that there are other kids and even adults out there that deserve bravery awards and they get fuck all, I'm talking about Fire Fighters, kids who stupidly (but still bravely) save their mate from drowning in a lake and things like that, that sort of shit doesn't get recognised enough, instead you have this shit televised every so often.

I understand the reason behind it is to raise funding for the particular child to fight the illness, however that's no reason to award them for bravery, they should be awarded for being fucking unlucky to be born with a grave illness.

Thoughts?

[Trainwreck]

i completely agree.

having an illness does not qualify you for an award.

i'd feel better if it was called an award for perserverance (sp?), not bravery

[Orbixx]

Yeah, but the thing is, they don't really consciously persevere, it's their body that perseveres for them. I'd probably go as far as a "Award for not losing hope yet". Fuck bravery. (or perseverance - btw, much better name now Trainwreck).

[Trainwreck]

they could easily call it a hope award, because it's not like they're being brave, they can't help it....


"congrats, you didn't kill yourself with an ammonia and bleach cocktail yet"

(thanks btw)

[FistFighter]

True heroes don't do it for the award anyways. I don't know if those kids deserve awards, but they do deserve encouragement that life is still worth living, even if it is with a horrible disease. Every should get the chance to try to live their life as they see fit as best they can, imho.

[Trainwreck]

True heroes don't do it for the award anyways. I don't know if those kids deserve awards, but they do deserve encouragement that life is still worth living, even if it is with a horrible disease. Every should get the chance to try to live their life as they see fit as best they can, imho.


If their awarding medals to kids for that, they should award medals to kids who have to deal with other diseases too.

It's not just cancer that plagues children's lives, but all you ever hear about is "Phillip has Lukimia, everyone give to the Phillip P. Morris Lukimia Foundation."


There are like 45,000 different cancer orginizations. And with all the kids, if one gets a medal, they all fucking deserve medals, and then it's not special.


I just think it's bad to put one kid with cancer above another with cancer. Neither are heoes, but they're not getting rid of the cancer any faster with a medal.

[Orbixx]

Spot on, Wreck.

[Daedalus66]

Yeah, like what puts one kid with cancer above another kid, in exactly the same position? I have a whole thing to type out, but i broke my dominant hand, so i can't type quick, and it would take to long.

[Trainwreck]

Making one kid feel special for having cancer probably makes all the other kids lose a little more hope, because they're not the ones being awarded for "bravery".

They're the ones being awarded for staying alive one more day. They have to live their lives in a hospital room hooked up on I.V.'s all day, and some other random cancer patient who actually can get out of the hospital bed gets a medal for it?

Totally unfair.

[Tangent]

I completely agree. There's really nothing more to say, seeing as Trainwreck took the words right out of my mouth. Bravery is something you earn, to work for. You can't be born 'Brave' just beacause you have an illness. It just brings me unrest knowing there's probably more deserving people out there. The flesh-eating disorders and the really obscure disorders and illnesses I can sort of understand, but what about things like SARS? The flu kills more people yearly, and you suffer worse symptoms than 'mild discomfort', yet your not on the news about it. It's a crazy world, I tell ya.

[Slevin57]

Well you all are easy to judge, considering (I'm guessing) most of were not born with a disease that causes you pay every day of your life, and will continue to cause you pain every day of your life, until you die.

Give them a Bravery Award, give them whatever the fuck will make them smile today and stop being pretentious bastards.

[MasterGlitch]

Give them a Bravery Award, give them whatever the fuck will make them smile today and stop being pretentious bastards.

But giving 5 kids with terminal illnesses awards does not bring smiles to the thousands of other kids with those same terminal illnesses. If you're going to give an award of bravery to someone because they have cancer(and for only that reason), then give the same award to everyone else with cancer.

I personally agree that someone born with an illness should not qualify for a "Congratulations, you were born with an illness!" award, but they should at LEAST be consistent about it.

[Steve]

Personally I think 'awards' for anything are just another way to create labels and separate people in society. We do award a lot of awards for the wrong reasons, not just beyond, "Congratulations, enjoy your cancer!" but to "Most valuable player" or "Sexiest smile".

It's all superficial and really does nothing. I think the most it might do is make the kid smile once for five seconds while he's getting the award but then he has to wake up and face reality that the shiny painted gold medal does nothing. They still (might) die all the same.

I say we just be equal. But we're humans, so I guess not. >_>

[Slevin57]

But giving 5 kids with terminal illnesses awards does not bring smiles to the thousands of other kids with those same terminal illnesses. If you're going to give an award of bravery to someone because they have cancer(and for only that reason), then give the same award to everyone else with cancer.

I personally agree that someone born with an illness should not qualify for a "Congratulations, you were born with an illness!" award, but they should at LEAST be consistent about it.

Yes but I'm sure the point of that show was not to award everyone, it was to get ratings for the network.

There is what should be done, then there is what is done.

[Orbixx]

This isn't relevent to the topic.

[RoboCop]

lol des kids arnt BRAVE they is jus fkn gay

fk me i thort u was serious LOL

WASSUP! robocop 4eva n00bs

[Slevin57]

This isn't relevent to the topic.

Do you have some secrete jealousy toward people with debilitating illnesses?

[Shins]

I think you're all heartless fucks. Yeah yeah, I get you: the world isn't fair. People aren't recognized that deserve it. You're not recognized. Boo-hoo.

They're not going to make a tv special for every single child with a horrible disease, but if it makes that one little kid feel good, in the smallest way, it's fine by me. You're all walled up looking at this objectively. Take a second off your thrones and put yourself in these kids' shoes, eh?

My cousin was diagnosed with leukemia when he was nine years old. He had to go through all the crappy ass kemo, tests upon loads of tests, lost his hair, was weak for months and months, but he kept on going, and he got past it and moved on with his life. I don't give a fuck what you believe about how much of that was just "standard biological functions", but to keep going through all of that, you need determination and will, and yeah, a bit of bravery.

If somebody wants to make a show of that, and if the kid is on board with it, would you really prefer to take that away from them, just to be fair and balanced in regard to everybody else in the world? Note that I'm not asking you about some faceless statistic of a cancer patient. I ask you to go into the children's cancer ward and look, really look into some of these kids' faces. If you deny them anything after that... I really don't know.

[Spanky Ham]

Ouch some really good arguements here, yea shin is right if it acually is helpful to the kids and they do go through a lot of crap then why not? Having a diseae is an on going thing and it takes a lot more courage to fight through something that last years than to do a quick thing that only takes a few minutes like putting out a fire or something, not that isnt important but not many people have to go through what that kid does...then again i dont even watch those shows..but still i think it is important that we note these kids, and if some people like watching them on tv then so be it, but me personally would rather be here on the computer.

[Evonus]

I say why bother with them at all. All they do is taint the gene pool and waste money. There are thousands of perfectly healthy kids starving to death in third world countries while we waste millions on one kid with faulty genes. Let him die and have another one for christ sakes.

[Spanky Ham]

ouch that's harsh..so your like one of those guys that will sacrific for the greater good eh? Well in that cause get rid of everyone who carries genetic diseases cause:

All they do is taint the gene pool and waste money.

I think that is just inhuman and that we should do the best we can for all our people in the world not just the healthy ones.

[Evonus]

ouch that's harsh..so your like one of those guys that will sacrific for the greater good eh? Well in that cause get rid of everyone who carries genetic diseases cause:

It wouldn't bother me if we did that.


I think that is just inhuman and that we should do the best we can for all our people in the world not just the healthy ones.

Why, so that the future generations will be weaker and sicker? The human race can't hope to improve if it does not submit itself to at least the basic forms of natural selection. If someone can't survive without medication, and they're still young then they don't deserve to live, because they shouldn't be passing bad genes on to the next generation.

[Shins]

You're a magnificent bastard, but at least you're a righteous fiend. Pure.

And full of bullshit. Shall I grab you some morphine so we might begin the Final Solution?

[Evonus]

You're a magnificent bastard, but at least you're a righteous fiend. Pure.

And full of bullshit. Shall I grab you some morphine so we might begin the Final Solution?

There's quite a difference between killing a race because you believe them to be your antithesis and trying to preserve the future health of the human race, so that if technology does fail one day we don't end up going extinct.

[Shins]

I wasn't really trying to directly compare this to the Holocaust. Just a subtle jab. The real brunt of my point is that it's easy enough for you to talk about letting these kids die, but are you willing to get the blood on your hands, personally?

I know I'm not.

[Evonus]

I wasn't really trying to directly compare this to the Holocaust. Just a subtle jab. The real brunt of my point is that it's easy enough for you to talk about letting these kids die, but are you willing to get the blood on your hands, personally?

I know I'm not.

I'd do it. Just give me the needle. I really don't think it would bother me to kill someone, especially if it was putting them out of a life of pain.

[Shins]

Problem is very few people are ever going to actively be put into the situation where they really do have the opportunity to see if they could do what they think they could do.

Until that point, it's all just words.

[Evonus]

Problem is very few people are ever going to actively be put into the situation where they really do have the opportunity to see if they could do what they think they could do.

Until that point, it's all just words.

If people can be drafted into the army and forced to kill healthy people who are in their situation on the other side of the fence I don't think putting the sick to rest would be that hard.

[Mufone]

well having cancer dosnt make me "brave" it makes me tired and sick but i can understand how it would make younger ppl feel better about them selvs.
were just going to die any way!

[Spanky Ham]

I'd do it. Just give me the needle. I really don't think it would bother me to kill someone, especially if it was putting them out of a life of pain.

Well i'll be here waiting until you get a disease and ill have the needle ready^^and if you think that doing so is beneifiting the human race, i bet your wrong since we are going to kill ourselves somehow or antoher through war or global warming....im counting the days....and if you think you can kill innocent people just because they are sick you should be in jail

[Mr.Badguy]

We're all gonna die one day whether it be by accident or illness or natural causes. I think we all deserve a bravery medal. Group hug?

[Spanky Ham]

If you really had to do something like keep the human race pure free of diseases, a more humanie way would be to make them not have sex....then again thats pretty harsh too...maybe not have babies?but still that is taking away freedom which isnt cool at all.

[Spanky Ham]

lol im with ya bad guy, can't say no to a group hug *hugs*

[MaudKip]

I agree.
I always found it annoying whenever I would see one of those kids on Opera or some show like that.
I hate that if the kid obtained the illness later in life, people would say "Oh he hasnt suffered as much as the kid born with the disorder"
Save the Bravery awards for the vetrens, police, and fire fighters.

[MaudKip]

If you really had to do something like keep the human race pure free of diseases, a more humanie way would be to make them not have sex....then again thats pretty harsh too...maybe not have babies?but still that is taking away freedom which isnt cool at all.

Not having sex wouldn't solve the problem.
The only way to stop diseases is to breed it out.
And then there will always be those who's genes do not mix well.

[Erosennin]

OMG DOUBLE DOUBLE POST...
Anyway medals SHOULD be given to all sick but not bravery as someone mentioned brave is a fire fighter pulling someone out of a building. HOW does one get a medal for been sick out of the thousands/millions(?) of sick. It is nice to do it the child does need some sort of inspiration to survive but what about the kids that die without a medal IE the ones on drips close to death. They should get the same treatment it's not really fair.

As for execution of the sick and dieing well it's the same moral problem with abortion. It's a HUMAN life you are taking it's never right in some peoples eyes and in some peoples eyes it's right in certain circumstances.

[Evonus]

Well i'll be here waiting until you get a disease and ill have the needle ready

We're talking about genetic diseases, you can't acquire a genetic disease later in life, you either have it or you don't.


^^and if you think that doing so is beneifiting the human race, i bet your wrong since we are going to kill ourselves somehow or antoher through war or global warming....im counting the days....

This isn't even relevant. Try again.


and if you think you can kill innocent people just because they are sick you should be in jail

No, actually you should be in jail for saying that. I can have any opinion I want under the first amendment of the constitution. As long as I don't kill anyone this way until it's legal then no charge can be brought against me for having an opinion. Read up on your government documents there chief.

[Steve]

It's a pity human beings aren't cattle.

"I am man with gun, you are lame cow. I shoot you. You feed me. In one year I eat calf that lamed you."

I suppose if we were all cattle then no one would really care that Evonus thinks 'natural selection' should take place. Or that a needle would help the sick.

I also suppose if we weren't humans we wouldn't have this moral sense of "right" and "wrong" that's aroused debate on behalf of the sick. Nor would the sick probably be living, because in the big chain of life where you're not on top, if you're not number one you're rot.

Let's strip away humanity and see how we all fare.

[Shins]

OMG DOUBLE DOUBLE POST...
Anyway medals SHOULD be given to all sick but not bravery as someone mentioned brave is a fire fighter pulling someone out of a building. HOW does one get a medal for been sick out of the thousands/millions(?) of sick.

Extend your logic, chief. Why should a fire fighter be awarded anything for doing his job? It's the same situation as you asking why someone should get an award "just" because they're born with a disease.

Don't contradict yourself.

[MasterGlitch]

There's quite a difference between killing a race because you believe them to be your antithesis and trying to preserve the future health of the human race, so that if technology does fail one day we don't end up going extinct.

Well, Hitler did include killing the sick and elderly in his plan. Ever hear of the T-4 Euthanasia Program? It was a Nazi program designed to kill off the terminally ill, the weak, and the old. All for the same reasons you want to kill people with genetic diseases. So, congratulations, you think like Hitler.


Why should a fire fighter be awarded anything for doing his job? It's the same situation as you asking why someone should get an award "just" because they're born with a disease.

It takes bravery to take a job as a firefighter. It does NOT take bravery to be BORN with a disease. When you are born with something, it just becomes a fact of life. Something that's always been there. Babies don't sign up to be born with a genetic disease. However, firefighters sign up to put themselves in potentially deadly situations for the sake of others.

In my opinion, the idea that it's harder to live with something if you were born with it than if you acquired it later in life is utter bullshit. Take, for example, my dad. He was born completely deaf. A friend of mine thought he lost his hearing as a result of an accident sometime in his adult life or as a teenager.
When my friend made the discovery that my dad was born deaf and not made deaf, he said "Oh, well now that I know that, I feel way more sorry for him."
My question: WHY?!
If my dad had become deaf as an accident it would make him feel miserable, because he would KNOW and REMEMBER what it is like to be able to hear things. It would be out of the norm and hard to deal with. But since he was born with it, it's just a part of him. He doesn't know what it's like to be hearing and therefore doesn't feel miserable that he can't hear for the reasons above.

Now, yes, I realize deafness is not something that takes lots of courage to live through without losing hope and shooting yourself. Just making a point. If you're born with something, it's completely normal for you. If you acquire something later, you remember how great life was before you got it, and it makes you feel worse.

In closing, people should not be awarded for bravery because they were born with a terminal illness they had no control over. What we should be doing, if anything, is recognizing the people who have lived many years with a terminal illness, but weren't actually born with it. But even then I don't know about the whole award system.

[Shins]

people should not be awarded for bravery because they were born with a terminal illness they had no control over.

I think they're brave and deserve medals. But if we're excluding people on this arbitrary bullshit, then I would firmly say that, irregardless of whatever virtues you might possess to put yourself in harm's way as a firefighter, it's still your job. It's what you're supposed to be doing. The reward is, ideally, simply that you have the opportunity to be doing it, to have the training necessary to help those who can't help themselves.

It's the same with doctors: you might be fucking ecstatic that Dr. Jones operated on your family member and things turned out great, but isn't that what you expected of him? Do you give him a gold star for doing what he went to college to learn. It's a profession, like any other.

Me, I could give a shit if we give medals to anyone. Whatever floats your boat: it's all just symbolic. But for you who would rather throw out the practice, I can't see the logic in being okay with awards in some cases, but not others.

[Evonus]

Well, Hitler did include killing the sick and elderly in his plan. Ever hear of the T-4 Euthanasia Program? It was a Nazi program designed to kill off the terminally ill, the weak, and the old. All for the same reasons you want to kill people with genetic diseases. So, congratulations, you think like Hitler.

You know, while I don't support Hitler's ideas of racial superiority, besides that I think he was right on target in many ways. I'd suggest instead of listening to the brain dead propaganda taboo, that you actually look into the different programs and stop with the "OMG TEH EVIL" attitude, because it's ignorant. Hitler and Stalin both are remembered terrible, but they both dragged two huge empires out of a recession and inspired millions to love them. So when you accomplish anything near what they have come back and chastise them then. There isn't such a thing as good and evil in politics.

[MasterGlitch]

You know, while I don't support Hitler's ideas of racial superiority, besides that I think he was right on target in many ways. I'd suggest instead of listening to the brain dead propaganda taboo, that you actually look into the different programs and stop with the "OMG TEH EVIL" attitude, because it's ignorant. Hitler and Stalin both are remembered terrible, but they both dragged two huge empires out of a recession and inspired millions to love them. So when you accomplish anything near what they have come back and chastise them then. There isn't such a thing as good and evil in politics.

I don't listen to what other people say. I mean, yes, Hitler did some good things, but in the grand scheme of things he was one evil, twisted fucker. And maybe some of his programs were good, but note that I only said the T-4 Euthanasia Program was bad. I never generalized anything, I never said Hitler didn't do anything good, I never proclaimed any type of "OMG TEH EVIL" statements against him based solely on what the public says. Why don't you try reading my post before you yell at me for things in it? Maybe then you'll actually argue against what I SAID, and not what you pulled out of thin air.

And, yes, there is such a thing as good and evil in politics. And politics are a seriously fucked up area of society. Politicians do some good things, but most of the time they go about them wrong. Using lies, trickery, and deceit to get things done. They exploit loopholes in the system to gain more power, and many other crooked things. There is good and evil in politics, and I would say that most of it is indeed evil.

[Evonus]

I don't listen to what other people say. I mean, yes, Hitler did some good things, but in the grand scheme of things he was one evil, twisted fucker. And maybe some of his programs were good, but note that I only said the T-4 Euthanasia Program was bad. I never generalized anything, I never said Hitler didn't do anything good, I never proclaimed any type of "OMG TEH EVIL" statements against him based solely on what the public says. Why don't you try reading my post before you yell at me for things in it? Maybe then you'll actually argue against what I SAID, and not what you pulled out of thin air.

I did, you said I think like Hitler as an insult to me. That's why you got the rant. Because you compared me to Hitler to demonize me and brush my point aside.


And, yes, there is such a thing as good and evil in politics.

I stopped reading the post right here.

[MaudKip]

Just to clear up, when I said firefighters I didnt mean everyday fires,I had in mind events such as 9/11

[MasterGlitch]

I did, you said I think like Hitler as an insult to me. That's why you got the rant. Because you compared me to Hitler to demonize me and brush my point aside.

But you made several sweeping assumptions about the nature of my thought process which simply are not true. You basically said that I consider Hitler evil because of taboos created by society, that I am unaware of anything good Hitler did, that I have absolutely no knowledge outside of what's been fed to me by society's idiocy, and that I'm basically an ignorant moron who listens to society to form all my opinions.

I'll have you know that I am familiar with what Hitler did during his time in power, I have done research on it and even have taken a class dedicated to World War II. I know that Hitler did some good things, but he also did some massively horrible things. I'd say that though he did do some of those good things, he was mostly a twisted fuck.


Just to clear up, when I said firefighters I didnt mean everyday fires,I had in mind events such as 9/11

It may be true that 9-11 was a big tragedy and all, but running into a burning and collapsing building is the same as running into any other burning and collapsing building. Just because it was an intentional attack does not make it different from other missions firefighters are sent on. I'm sorry, but it's true.